[Super Genius Games] Codex Draconis: Black Lords of the Marsh


Product Discussion

Scarab Sages

The latest from SGG goes live today: Codex Draconis: Black Lords of the Marsh, presenting 29 pages of black dragony goodness--or should that be vileness? It’s the first in our Codex Draconis series, each volume of which focuses on a single type of dragon and gives you stat blocks, options, alternatives, and extras such as pregenerated hoards for EVERY AGE CATEGORY of that dragon.

Available now!

Scarab Sages

To answer a question I've been asked in a couple of emails but not yet in a forum, yes the pregenerated hoards include versions for slow, medium, and fast advancement treasure values. So there are three related but different treasure hoards for every age category of black dragon.

Also each item in each hoard includes its gp total, so if you want to swap out just a few items, that's easy to figure.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I am REALLY loving this idea!!!


hmmm interesting. One of my players is a dragon rider, and his dragon has a rival, a black dragon that is (unknown to the character) responsible for the death of the character's family. I wonder if this product will help me make that eventual confrontation more interesting. I will have to take a look.

Is it purely options and stat blocks or is there fluff too? Though I understand the reasoning, I wasn't happy with the lack of descriptive material in the bestiary for the dragons.

Scarab Sages

Kolokotroni wrote:

hmmm interesting. One of my players is a dragon rider, and his dragon has a rival, a black dragon that is (unknown to the character) responsible for the death of the character's family. I wonder if this product will help me make that eventual confrontation more interesting. I will have to take a look.

Is it purely options and stat blocks or is there fluff too? Though I understand the reasoning, I wasn't happy with the lack of descriptive material in the bestiary for the dragons.

There's *some* fluff, mostly in the form of descriptions of why black dragons at various ages have different-looking hoards. There's a bit of description with each variant build suggestion as well, which also has some notes on tactics.

But *most* of the book is statblocks for all age categories of black dragon, alternate builds for each age category, pregenerated hoards for slow/medium, and fast progressions games for every age category, and suggestions for how to increase the toughness of the fight at every age category.

Honestly that already creates a 29 page PDF, which is way over our normal weekly target, and took a lot of hands to put together. But if there's a real demand for it, we will look at providing more fluff next time.


Will you be doing this for all the Dragons?

Scarab Sages

voska66 wrote:
Will you be doing this for all the Dragons?

That question has a short answer and a long answer. the short answer is "yes!"

The long answer is a depressing litany of things that might prevent the short answer from being true, like sales vs. time required, none of which we can predict right now. The *plan* right now is to do one of these for every dragon, starting with the chromatics, and then perhaps alternating between metallics and primals until we're done. I'm pretty sure we'd include some alternative uses for metallics as well (such as turning gold dragons into neutral or evil 'volcano dragons'), since metallic dragons see a lot less use in most campaigns.

Some of these are already in process, but again sales and market conditions could force us to reassess our plans. I certainly hope not though, I *like* having a bunch of ready-to-go dragons!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Should have put some cheese cake art on the cover then to help with sales. :)


Interesting.


There are several ways to use metallic dragons as enemies without needing an evil party or twisting the dragon's alignment.

Dragons often see the PC races as "lesser creatures" and might not care how many of them die in the name of a "greater good." Or they might feel such beings are obviously short sighted due to their much shorter lifespans and need to be conquered "for their own good." Or they might feel that "we'll make great pets."

Scarab Sages

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Should have put some cheese cake art on the cover then to help with sales. :)

[joke]Are you volunteering?[/joke]

[serious]We try to match our cover art to our content, and black dragons aren't normally found in bikinis, even chainmail ones.[/serious]

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Should have put some cheese cake art on the cover then to help with sales. :)

[joke]Are you volunteering?[/joke]

[serious]We try to match our cover art to our content, and black dragons aren't normally found in bikinis, even chainmail ones.[/serious]

Ah but they like maidens for some reason and the can be sexy. :)

Dark Archive

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

To answer a question I've been asked in a couple of emails but not yet in a forum, yes the pregenerated hoards include versions for slow, medium, and fast advancement treasure values. So there are three related but different treasure hoards for every age category of black dragon.

Also each item in each hoard includes its gp total, so if you want to swap out just a few items, that's easy to figure.

Nice!

Scarab Sages

greatamericanfolkhero wrote:
OStephens wrote:
Also each item in each hoard includes its gp total, so if you want to swap out just a few items, that's easy to figure.
Nice!

Yeah, this has been so well received I begin to wonder if we should just do a short PDF of Loot! that gives 20 level of pregen treasure.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
greatamericanfolkhero wrote:
OStephens wrote:
Also each item in each hoard includes its gp total, so if you want to swap out just a few items, that's easy to figure.
Nice!
Yeah, this has been so well received I begin to wonder if we should just do a short PDF of Loot! that gives 20 level of pregen treasure.

Handing out treasure, whether its pregenerated, random, or based on a wishlist system, is one of the most time consuming things a DM does. For me at least, picking magic items that make sense that arent big six items takes the most time of any step in making the darn thing. I would not be shocked in the least if the fact that the product having listed hoards is in fact a big draw for the product.

Scarab Sages

Kolokotroni wrote:
Handing out treasure, whether its pregenerated, random, or based on a wishlist system, is one of the most time consuming things a DM does. For me at least, picking magic items that make sense that arent big six items takes the most time of any step in making the darn thing. I would not be shocked in the least if the fact that the product having listed hoards is in fact a big draw for the product.

It certainly was one of the most time consuming things in creating the product. And we did include a fair number of big 6 items, because A: they are big 6 items for a reason and B: At triple treasure value, dragons are one of the few places you can likely hand out a big 6 with a better value than most people have *and* some other treasure.

Still it's an interesting data point, and it gives me another couple ideas for products...

Liberty's Edge

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
greatamericanfolkhero wrote:
OStephens wrote:
Also each item in each hoard includes its gp total, so if you want to swap out just a few items, that's easy to figure.
Nice!
Yeah, this has been so well received I begin to wonder if we should just do a short PDF of Loot! that gives 20 level of pregen treasure.

Wow - cool idea!

It 'd be a last to do illustrations for ... just sayin! :)

Scarab Sages

Marc Radle wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Yeah, this has been so well received I begin to wonder if we should just do a short PDF of Loot! that gives 20 level of pregen treasure.

Wow - cool idea!

It 'd be a last to do illustrations for ... just sayin! :)

Okay, fair question; How much would people like to see illustrations of treasure in A: The next Codex Draconis and B: In a product called Loot! that was just pregenerated hoards?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Yeah, this has been so well received I begin to wonder if we should just do a short PDF of Loot! that gives 20 level of pregen treasure.

Wow - cool idea!

It 'd be a last to do illustrations for ... just sayin! :)

Okay, fair question; How much would people like to see illustrations of treasure in A: The next Codex Draconis and B: In a product called Loot! that was just pregenerated hoards?

A) Not so much. Loot isn't the point of Codex Draconis, so should probably not be the focus of the illustrations.

B) Definitely.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Paul Watson wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Yeah, this has been so well received I begin to wonder if we should just do a short PDF of Loot! that gives 20 level of pregen treasure.

Wow - cool idea!

It 'd be a last to do illustrations for ... just sayin! :)

Okay, fair question; How much would people like to see illustrations of treasure in A: The next Codex Draconis and B: In a product called Loot! that was just pregenerated hoards?

A) Not so much. Loot isn't the point of Codex Draconis, so should probably not be the focus of the illustrations.

B) Definitely.

Just in general, a "Loot!" PDF would be a lot more useful to me at the moment than another edition of Codex Draconis, though I wouldn't mind seeing one for Blue dragons next.

Scarab Sages

Kvantum wrote:
Just in general, a "Loot!" PDF would be a lot more useful to me at the moment than another edition of Codex Draconis, though I wouldn't mind seeing one for Blue dragons next.

Well, by one logical standard, Blue would be the next Codex Draconis. Anything in particular you'd like to see in such a book, to maximize it's utility to you?

And Loot! is looking more and more likely at this point.


Do the statblocks include material from noncore books (such as the Advanced Player's Guide)?

Scarab Sages

Are wrote:
Do the statblocks include material from noncore books (such as the Advanced Player's Guide)?

I don't believe so. Certainly not extensively, but I can't say for absolute certain that a a few APG magic items didn't sneak into the hoards, for example.

Come to think of it, I know I did reference the GMG and Bestiary II when giving examples of allies a black dragon might have at given age categories, but they are only examples. There's certainly nothing from anything other than the APG, GMG, Bestiary I and II and core rulebook.

Interesting point, though. would people prefer we did or didn't use such material in future Codex Draconis products? I had assumed it had wider appeal if we didn't, but I know some gamers prefer to see broad support for any book that looks "core." Do you care if we give dragons Rending Claws or ring of maniacal devices in his hoard?


Picked this up today. It's going to come in very handy in my next couple of game sessions. :D

Liberty's Edge

The quickest fix I've found for Dragon Alignments is just to steal a page from Eberron, and just rule that any Dragon can be of Any Alignment.

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