|
It varies. For example, if you have a monster who is thematically similar to a bard, you would probably use the bard list to set your DCs.
But in general, the hierarchy goes something like this. It's not a written rule, just a facet of good design:
1) If it is a sorcerer/wizard spell, use that list.
2) If it is a cleric spell, use that list.
3) If it is neither 1 or 2, use the class spell list that grants the spell at the earliest opportunity. (For example, if the spell is bard 3, inquisitor 4, meatshaman 4, use the bard version to calculate DC.)
Edit: Oh yeah, you're talking monster abilities. Yeah, that formula is as noted below.
Name Violation has it right. For spells, you need to know spell level for the caster and relevant ability score modifier. For monster's, you need to use 1/2 its hit dice and its Charisma bonus.
The final paragraph before format.
10+1/2 HD+ability modifier is used for supernatural and extraordinary abilities only. Spell-like abilities alwyas have spell level, usually determined in the way above, except for summon and a few others which have equivalent spell level noted in description.
The final paragraph before format.
10+1/2 HD+ability modifier is used for supernatural and extraordinary abilities only. Spell-like abilities alwyas have spell level, usually determined in the way above, except for summon and a few others which have equivalent spell level noted in description.
A few classes have spell-like abilities with undefined level (and not based on an existing spell) though, maybe it has been errata'd, that is rather annoying if you want to make concentration checks or determine the effects of globe of invulnerability.
The usual order in 3.5 was sorcer/wizard, cleric, druid, bard list, though I'd like to see every spell come with an innate spell level, that way new, more obscure, classes do not cause confusion.
As a sidenote a spell-like ability always use charisma unless otherwise noted to determine DC.
if you have a monster with class levels, it's just 1/2 HD of the monster HD, right?i believe you use the wiz/sorc as a default, and cleric as a fall back.
also a lot of monsters use 10 + 1/2 hd + cha for spell like ability saves
yes, just racial HD
though it is possible to make a variant with more HD and thus a higher DC.
A few classes have spell-like abilities with undefined level (and not based on an existing spell) though, maybe it has been errata'd, that is rather annoying if you want to make concentration checks or determine the effects of globe of invulnerability.
Sorry, forgot about those. Thus far I found Paladin's divine bond, Bard's frightening tune, clerical domains unique spell-like abilities, sorcerous bloodlines unique spell-like abilities and wizardly schools unique spell-like abilities.
However they do not appear to scale with spell level and I think that they should use half the class level on which such feature is gained as spell level instead of half total class level. Rounded up for abilities gained on first level in case of domains, bloodlines and schools as they seem to be on par with first level spells. The only exception would be divine bond, which should scale somehow but still half of the total Paladin level would be too high on higher levels (used on 20th Paladin level certainly does not qualify as 10th level spell in power, more like 5th or 6th - maybe use enhancement bonus it grants as spell level?).
EDIT: The same should also apply to Oracle's mysteries, except they are not gained on fixed levels - maybe minimum level to get them would be some indicator. There is at least one revelation that changes its equivalent spell level (dweller in darkness from Heavens Mystery), however it is based on actual spells so the spell level are more or less clear.
A few classes have spell-like abilities with undefined level (and not based on an existing spell) though, maybe it has been errata'd, that is rather annoying if you want to make concentration checks or determine the effects of globe of invulnerability.Sorry, forgot about those. Thus far I found Paladin's divine bond, Bard's frightening tune, clerical domains unique spell-like abilities, sorcerous bloodlines unique spell-like abilities and wizardly schools unique spell-like abilities.
However they do not appear to scale with spell level and I think that they should use half the class level on which such feature is gained as spell level instead of half total class level. Rounded up for abilities gained on first level in case of domains, bloodlines and schools as they seem to be on par with first level spells. The only exception would be divine bond, which should scale somehow but still half of the total Paladin level would be too high on higher levels (used on 20th Paladin level certainly does not qualify as 10th level spell in power, more like 5th or 6th - maybe use enhancement bonus it grants as spell level?).
It seems to me an oversight on paizo's part, if they list something as (sp) they should give a spell level equivalent, like the summon ability of some outsiders. Especially confusing since they use a mechanic which is similar to monsters using of (su) and (ex) abilities.
The final paragraph before format.
10+1/2 HD+ability modifier is used for supernatural and extraordinary abilities only. Spell-like abilities alwyas have spell level, usually determined in the way above, except for summon and a few others which have equivalent spell level noted in description.
Whoops. You're right, should wait to post until I'm ready to be coherent :0