As the thread names implies, I'd like to get opinions on what everyone thinks is the best caster class for a first time caster player to take? All I've ever really played are the melee classes, and I just want to do something new.
It depends on if you have another more experienced caster player to help you out at character creation.
Spontaneous casters (sorcerer, bard, oracle) are far easier to play once the char is made, but they have to choose what spells they know when they are created (and level up) so if you make bad choices then, you're going to have a tough time.
I'd really like to go ahead and take the plunge and play a full on caster, but do you think one of the "hybrid" casters (ranger...paladin...inquisitor...etc come to mind) first? Seems like if I'm going to play a caster, it would be easier/better to go ahead and go full caster and not have to worry about feats, etc. to try to keep my melee ability up. Seems simpler that way.
I think another thing to consider is what responsibilities you'd be covering within the group. Is it a larger or a smaller party? I'm new to Pathfinder, too, but I've had the luxury of playing, building and observing a bunch of different casters since I got started about a year ago. Our group typically has five or six party members, so most of what I've tried has worked out reasonably well, even with zero experience, just taking advice from these messageboards. But that was at least in part because in every circumstance I could afford to be a support caster, always helping in some small way but sort of figuring things out as I went.
My impressions so far: If you're used to melee and know your way around the weapons and such, a Bard might be a good choice for a first caster. There's never a time when the party will want to turn down Inspire Courage or Inspire Competence, so you'll always be contributing something. And if you can flank and land hits, you'll still have something to do, even when your spells known list is very short and the spells in question might not be just what you need that day.
I also love, love, love Druids. I went with a domain instead of an animal companion, but if you build more of a melee Druid, you can employ what you already know while learning your way around a spell list that is (imho) wonderfully flexible without being overwhelmingly so.
Oracles are another good option, though so far I've only built theoretical Oracles. Each individual Oracle build is defined by abilities selected from a list of optional Revelations. Almost all Revelations seem like good things to have, and some are reeeally cool. Best of all, many of the cool ones are available starting at low level, scale as your character advances, and are extremely simple to use. Just add what you like best, and as long as you think it will be fun to do that thing over and over again, you're set. Additionally, Oracle spells come from the Cleric spell list, and so far I've found it less heart-breaking to choose spells known from the Cleric list than from the Sorcerer/Wizard list. (I have played a Sorcerer, and I found the early levels confusing and frustrating at times). I think if I had it to do over again, I'd make my first caster one who primarily cast helping spells - buffs and magic weapon spells and whatnot. It's easier to pick buffs that will be widely applicable, because you know your allies, so you know what works for them. (And when your allies outgrow your spells known, then you can retrain). But you don't know your enemies ahead of time, and predicting what will work for all or most of them can be a headache.
Of course, all this depends on whether or not you have the luxury of adopting the support caster's role. It would have driven me mad to play a Wizard my first time out, *and* it would have driven me mad to try to do everything the Wizard (or even the standard Cleric) is expected to do while playing a class that doesn't quite do it. (I don't mean to imply that Wizards and Clerics are obligatory; just that it's harder to sub for them when you don't yet know what to expect!)
If you can't play a bonus caster or are a member of a very small group, one of the magic/melee hybrids - like the Paladin or the Ranger - might be a way to play with magic while still filling a more traditional role in the party, thus relieving some of the pressure.
Anyway, that's the best advice I can come up with. Good luck!
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What do you wanna do?
What do you find fun?
We can explore ways of making what you wanna do (and find fine fun) useful once we know!
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Sounds like your group could use a primary arcane caster.
I would jump on in and do a specialist wizard. You have these boards to help you especially, so you'll be fine in terms of spell selection. There are a few critical things that are really nice to have, but other than that you might just wanna buff and provide some ranged artillery, especially if the ranger is Melee oriented. Blasting is a little easier to play, as is buffing, really.
As others have said, whatever you have fun with is good. But if you are playing a first time caster I would suggest a cleric.
You can fall back onto hitting things in a pinch, you can choose lots of spells to try out, and then if you are good still channel and convert to healing spells with poor spell choices.
You will learn a lot of the nuances of magic such are range, SR, Saves, spell selection, etc but have back up utility to the party to fight and heal while you are on the learning curve.
Maybe try some of the 3.5 classes that were spontaneous casters with a pre-selected spells known list, such as the beguiler, dread necromancer, and warmage. They tend to be specialized, but they take the burden of "choosing the wrong spell" away.
Your party already has a decent healer (paladin), a good backup healer or two (ranger (or rogue with Use Magic Device) with a wand of cure light wounds), a good single-target basher (paladin), a couple of good skirmishers and/or possible archers (ranger and rogue), good skill monkeys (ranger and rogue), possibly 2 good party faces (paladin and rogue).
Area Effect spells can be used if you run into a whole bunch of goons. Utility and movement spells are really useful. So that suggests wizard.
Alternatively, a cleric is excellent and removing de-buffs, healing, and can self-buff and tank.
Thirdly, Druids are super versatile. They can fill many roles, can choose to have a valuable animal companion that can also be a tank, and their mix of spells is pretty good.
Not caring about what is in your party, just based on pure "easiness" of mechanics, and just core + apg I would go in order
1:Cleric
2:Sorcerer (Non-arcane)
3:Oracle
4:Wizard
5:Druid
6:Witch
7:Bard
8:Alchemist
Sorcerer is probably slightly easier than cleric, but can be ruined by poor spell selection, and has trouble wearing armor, carrying things, etc. Really 3.5 and pathfinder really amped up the ease of play and strength of the cleric in the attempt to make people play them.
Bard you could switch to 5th and bump druid and witch down if you didn't mind just singing in combat and doing very little spell casting other than buffing. Once you get into the offensive veins of bard-ism you have to sit down and do some planning.
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It really depends on what you mean by 'best': do you mean 'most effective', or 'easiest to learn how to play'?
If it's the former, then Cleric is always good - healing is going to be appreciated by pretty much any group, so even if you only do that to start with you're being a vitally useful part of the team. You also get all the spells on your list, so you can start to try out a few more of them as time goes on, and see what you like. Since you have to make your spell selections before the day's adventuring, you can take some time before the game begins to read through and make your choices - but the bonus with Cleric is that even if you end up having made bad choices for the situations you find your group in, you can always swap those spells out for healing spells.
If it's the latter, then Sorcerer is a good choice. You only get a couple of 'spells known' at each level, so you won't have to memorise the whole rulebook (or spend hours delaying the game whilst you check through it) just to choose which spell to fling. You'll also get some Bloodline abilities which are generally straightforward 'powers' you can fall back on. Overall you'll end up needing to know less all in one go. Unlike some of the APG classes, once you choose your Bloodline, you don't have other choices to make as well - Oracles and Summoners and the like, although good classes, mean you have to read through lists of revelations, or figure out how to build a pet monster...
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Definitely best as in easiest to learn how to play.
Then I'd say Sorcerer - the Bloodlines are pretty balanced power-wise, so you can just pick the one you like the flavour of the most, and the text tells you what you get (no other choices are required). You only get a few cantrips and a couple of spells 'known' at level 1, so you don't have to read and remember how a load of spells work, just a few - plus, as a spontaneous caster, you don't need to decide beforehand which ones to prepare for the day. If, after a couple of levels of trying out the spells you've chosen, you realise you don't like them, you eventually get to swap them out for different ones. Assuming you're starting at level one, or thereabouts, it's probably the gentlest learning curve of the full caster classes.
Definitely best as in easiest to learn how to play.
Sorcerer then. Just find a list of "must have" spells. There are plenty aroud the internet. Like this one and follow the advice.
Also a good read :The (almost) Complete Guide to Sorcerers:
A Minstrel's Take on God's Hot Sister.
A card analogy may explain why I think a sorcerer is easier than a cleric to play. Playing a sorcerer is like playing with a hand of few different cards you can use like you want, and more often. Playing a cleric is like playing with a whole deck, and having to choose in advance what to take in a smaller hand for the day.
Best to start with a few cards and less restrictions on how to use them, I think.
You could even really write down your spells on cards and you're all set - you know you can play X first level card each day, X second level, etc.
Absolutely my only reservation regarding starting with the Sorcerer class - which I did, and which, as suggested above, at least kept me from spending all night looking things up in a panic! - is that you begin with so very few spells known and have to wait more than one level before you can even learn a new first level spell. Even if you choose very very well, that's *two* first level spells. Two! To last you almost a whole module of an average AP, because you won't get to learn a single new first level spell until Sorcerer Level 3. Depending on your group's cash flow and access to shops, you may not even be able to afford or to purchase a few emergency utility scrolls during that versatility dry spell. (My sorcerer has just now reached seventh level, and I'm only just starting to feel well-equipped to deal with the requisite variety of situations - and our group has a wizard, so I'm just back-up).
One reason I've ended up preferring Divine casters like Clerics and Druids as first casters is that they automatically gain access to their entire spell lists.* Which sounds daunting, but the thing is: on a day to day basis, you don't *have to* sift through all the options. Pick a couple of spells from your list that sound universally useful. (Optimization guides exist for prepared casters as well as sorcerers, so you can find lots of advice to help you at this stage). Then pick a couple of spells that sound awesome to you or suit your character's theme or with which you just want to experiment. Learn about that handful of spells, just as if you were a spontaneous caster with a limited spell list. Bam! Your preps are done! Then, if some of the spells turn out not to be fun, or if you happen to know on a certain day that you're going into a den of undead, you can just change to a new, small set of spells - studying between sessions, maybe.
There's nothing wrong with a prepared caster who returns time and time again to a handful of well-beloved spells. (If there were such things as prepared casters in real life, I bet most of them would do exactly that). But especially if you are the primary source of magic for your group, you don't want to get stuck with an extremely limited spell list that includes spells you regret picking or can't use.
I don't know what campaign setting you're expecting, but if it's going to be outdoorsy, my personal pick for you would be Druid. Druid, druid, druid! I *looove* Druids, because the spell list includes a little bit of almost everything you need - healing, utility, buffs for your team members and animal companion (if any) and a few direct attacks. There are even a few silly weapon enhancers that aren't super-great but can keep you busy in melee or ranged combat during very early levels. (Then, as soon as you no longer need them, you just stop using them, a luxury the spontaneous caster doesn't have - not with more than one retrained spell at a time, anyway). A druid, with or without an animal companion, has the potential versatility to be awesome for your group, but also affords you time to learn by trial and error.
Plus - and here's what makes Druids sort of easy to learn your way around - YOU CAN'T CHOOSE BAD PREPS AS A DRUID. If you guess wrong and prepare something you end up unable to use on a given day - or if you're sticking to your three or four favorites, and they aren't helpful to you in a given situation - you can convert *any* spell slot to a Summon Nature's Ally spell of that level. Past second or third level (once the spell duration isn't so punishing), that's pretty much always a great option. And while the list of summonable nature's allies may *seem* long, the rule is the same as with the entirety of the spell list. You don't have to use or know about all of them. Pick a couple of favorite summons, know their stats, and go back for them as often as you like. My personal favorite are Stirges! (Not even on the Summon Monster list, ha!) I like to use higher level SNA spells to summon small groups of lower-level Stirges. They get +7 to attack touch armor class, then they attach to their victims and drain CON round after round. Muahaha! It comes in handy quite frequently. :o)
When I'm not a Druid, oh, I miss those Stirges...
Anyhoo, another long post. (Sorry). But at the risk of running counter to many more experienced players, I think the easiest way to begin casting is to gradually master a more versatile class (maybe using trial and error), rather than bind yourself to the handful of possibly frustrating options offered by a more focused class. Is a druid or cleric harder to play optimally? Maybe? Probably? But if the question is: which full casting class is easiest to *start* playing and least likely to find you bashing your head against a wall in frustration, I'd say the divine caster.
*Even wizards have to pay to acquire new spells, so there's still some pressure related to making strategic choices.
Druid is a complex go because you have to track a)yourself b)your companion c) your summons
Anyone have an opinion on the Oracle? FOr some reason, I'm finding myself strangely drawn to it...
An oracle of battle will be great for you if you want to be able to fall back on being a fighter-type. They make great front-liners, faces, decent healers, and cast kind of like sorcerers.
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Oracles are very focused. Pick your mistery and stick to the theam. Divine casters are powerfull. The difrence is it takes a much longer time to get the better spells. Divine casters start to come in to there power with 3rd levels spells. Where as arcane casters start at 2nd level spells.
After playing alot of divine casters. I like oracles better becous you get more castings per day. I don't make healing npc to follow the group around. I make a divine caster that the enemy fears. Greater Comand, Holy Smite, Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness. Thes are just a few of the better spells divine casters get.
Anyone have an opinion on the Oracle? FOr some reason, I'm finding myself strangely drawn to it...
I am sort of hypothetically in love with the Oracle class, but I've never actually played one. I've been given permission by my GM to build a Life Oracle cohort to marry my Kingmaker character (she rules the Kingdom, and ruling jointly will grant the kingdom bonuses), but he has yet to see action. I'm also working on no fewer than four hypothetical spare Oracles, just for fun. When it came to the Mystery, I couldn't pick just one!
My favorite things about the class are:
1. Limited spell list, but it's pretty easy to find spells on the Cleric list that will never go out of style, even if you do miss out on some of the more circumstantial choices a Cleric might use.
2. Every single Mystery has a totally different flavor, and there's no such thing as a single optimal build that would suit all Oracles, so I could theoretically play a bunch of different ones and have a new experience every time.
3. Some of the Revelations just sound *so cool* that I'd have to restrain myself from taking Extra Revelation each time I got to take a feat.
4. Oracle's curses are fascinating flavor and some of them make me giggle - the Haunted curse, in particular.
Possible disadvantages?
1. Lack of versatility is a bigger deal in some parties than others. Scrupulous, scrupulous strategic choices are probably sufficient to play an Oracle as the party's primary caster, but I personally don't feel ready to attempt this feat.
2. Several of the mysteries have super cool revelations, but their bonus spells known seem so circumstantial that if I chose that Mystery, I'd pretty much resign myself to never using them. (Except, no doubt, in some bizarre circumstance down the line, where my jaw would drop, and I'd be all, 'OMG, I have a spell for that!!!')
3. Hard to explain, but... what draws me to the various Mysteries might turn out to be exactly what would make playing an Oracle as a group's primary caster difficult: they just suggest some extremely odd - truly distinct - builds. Not a problem, but if you're looking to fill a very traditional role, 'odd' might not be the easiest route from which to do it. (Of course, this problem, if a problem at all, is completely predicated on the assumption that your group looks to fulfill traditional roles).
Some of my favorite Mysteries?
1. The Life mystery lends itself easily to producing a healbot like nothing you've ever seen before. (Just the visual of a dude using Energy Body fascinates me; and the utility applications of the Elemental Subtype are promising). Our GM's rule is that cohorts be constructed on a point-buy five points lower than that used by the PCs, so I only had enough resources to give my cohort high CHA, good CON and decent everything else. (Since he's supposed to be King, I figured: no dump stats). But it would be easy to create a Life Oracle that heals exceptionally well and does at least one other thing: debuffing, stealth, melee or ranged combat. With enough Life Links active, a Life Oracle can tank from the back row! (General versatility? Probably not the most versatile Oracle, since his Revelations and bonus spells all tend toward the same product - unconventional and expedient healing).
2. The Heavens Oracle is highly regarded, to judge by the messageboards, and it's one of the Mysteries that has worthwhile bonus spells. (Knowing Color Spray at 2nd level is not a bad deal, especially when it wouldn't even ordinarily be on your spell list; and the Heavens Oracle has access to a Revelation that keeps Color Spray useful much longer). But the Heavens Mystery tends to be celebrated for its battlefield control potential, and I'd want to talk to my GM about the interpretation of some of the Revelations (like the celestial bridge-thing; what does that even look like --> how can it legally be used?) before committing to it. Additionally, my particular gaming group tends to see battlefield control as interference more than assistance, so the worth of the options, however powerful, could be context-dependent. (And speaking of context, at least some of the Heavens Oracle's Revelations work best out under the night sky - which is circumstantial).
3. The Winds Oracle lends itself nicely - in my mind - to a super-agile, stealthy party member, maybe with a bow and arrows. Invisibility - and several other useful options - available at-will starting as early as 3rd level! (If you take Extra Revelation). Wings at seventh! Plus, whether it works all that well or not, I love the option that starts with bonuses to Perception, then develops into clairvoyance/clairaudience into any place the wind can reach, at seventh level. This mystery sounds great for spying!
4. The Nature Oracle, like the Druid, seems best off outside in a campaign where animals are about. Probably not as versatile as the Druid, but some of the Revelations are deeply intriguing. I personally love all the divination flavor you can get without spending spell slots or irritating the GM. (Reading entrails to get insight bonuses, talking to animals or plants, throwing dirt in the air and reading the wind. Fun! Vaguely creepy!) :o) You can also substitute your CHA modifier for your DEX modifier when calculating your armor class, which lends itself to the ultra-rare option of dumping your DEX.
5. The Lore Oracle is probably, perhaps strangely, the character I'd have the least clear, practical idea of what to *do* with, but that's not because the Revelations don't sound exciting. I have a picture of a Lore Oracle in my mind, and I'm working on her, but I don't know exactly what she'd do within a party. (Of course, in my big group, that's not such a big deal!)
6. I lack your melee expertise, so so far I can't figure out how to make a Battle Oracle work well, but it seems to be an option many people on the messageboards have found attractive.
Anyway, at the end of the day, I think it's about whether any of the Oracle Mysteries suits what you want - and possibly also what your group most needs. I love that they suggest quite specialized characters - really unforgettable, unique characters - but I don't think I could very effectively force an Oracle to do something it wasn't designed to do. Does that make sense?
On a final, practical note: what I've done as I've been working on my spare Oracle characters, just for fun, is start a Word document where I track the available Revelations through all twenty levels. To help me decide what to choose and when to adopt each option, I've made a list, starting with level 1, of what Oracle revelations are available to the Oracle with X Mystery. Then, as each Revelation scales with level, I add entries at the later levels showing how the powers have increased. That way, I can pick the most important options first, then revisit other options as they become more attractive down the line.