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Hello,
I was wondering if it's legal for a half-orc shapeshifter ranger with the razortusk feat to take multiattack without taking 10 levels of ranger first?
Example:
LVL 1: Ranger, Keen Scent
LVL 2: Ranger, Aspect of the Beast
LVL 3: Fighter (Savage Warrior), Razortusk
...
LVL 6: Multiattack?
Thanks!
The only requirement for the Razortusk feat is that your character be a half-orc, so class does not matter, nor does what level the character is when taken. I am not sure about the multi-attack part.
Also, unless you are meaning something else, I am pretty sure there are no shapeshifters allowed in PFS play.
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By shapeshifter I believe that he his speaking about the ranger archetype from the APG in which he would be able to take on the characteristics of an animal aspect in exchange for a normal ranger's favored terrain.
As for your question, I believe that as long as you have the prereqs for the feat you would be fine in taking it. The only thing about waiting until 10th level as a ranger is that you would get the feat for free without needing the prereqs.
*edited for spelling issues
Ah, ok. I have not had the time to look much through the APG yet. But one thing I did not catch the first time around about Multiattack. None of the feats from the Bestiary are legal for play in PFS.
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Well in the ranger entry under Combat Style it says
"At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites"
Then in the Aspect of the Beast feat it says
"Special: A character that has contracted lycanthropy can take this feat without having to meet the prerequisites. A ranger who selects the natural weapon combat style can take this feat without having to meet the prerequisites (even if he does not select Aspect of the Beast as a bonus feat).
I know that bestiary feats are not normally legal for PFS, but in this case a few of them are on the list. My question is the equivalent of asking if an archer style ranger can take pinpoint targeting as their 6th level general feat(without meeting the prereqs)? Hopefully that makes my question more clear. I suspect that the PFS gods hate me and want to make me roll three higher to hit with my bite attacks for all of eternity. :(
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Bestiary feats are not legal for PFS play, even for Rangers with the Natural Combat style. End, full stop. That was made clear when the APG was published.
You got a link for this directly? All I can find is that you can't take Bestiary feats as character level feats (1,3,5,7, etc) but you can get it if granted and they mentioned Multiattack example.
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Actually, it looks like somewhat of a gray area, to me, which does need some official attention:
Natural Weapon: If the ranger selects natural weapon style, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Aspect of the Beast*, Improved Natural Weapon**, Rending Claws*, and Weapon Focus. At 6th level, he adds Eldritch Fangs* and Vital Strike to the list. At 10th level, he adds Multiattack** and Improved Vital Strike to the list.
Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide
The following parts of the Advanced Player’s Guide are NOT legal for play: Craftsman alternate Dwarven racial trait, Practicality alternate Halfling racial trait, Heart of the Fields alternate Human racial trait, Alchemist’s Brew Potion class ability (he receives Extra Bombs instead as a bonus feat), Cavalier’s Expert Trainer class ability (he receives Skill Focus [Handle Animal] instead as a bonus feat), Witch’s Cauldron hex, Antipaladin alternate class, Cooperative Crafting feat, all cursed magic items and artifacts, the Hero Point new rule and associated feats, spells, and magic items, the Hedge Magician, Magical Knack, Natural Born Leader, and Rich Parents traits, and all of the Campaign Traits. The Master Alchemist feat may only be selected by Alchemists and Poisoners.
Pathfinder RPG Bestiary
Feats: none of the feats are legal for play for PCs, animal companions, or familiars.
A couple of points: When a nominally illegal feat is listed as a bonus feat for an animal that can be an animal companion, it retains the feat.
For the Natural Weapon Ranger, it cuts down, significantly, on the bonus feat availability:
Natural Weapon (edited): If the ranger selects natural weapon style, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Aspect of the Beast*, Rending Claws*, and Weapon Focus. At 6th level, he adds Eldritch Fangs* and Vital Strike to the list. At 10th level, he adds Improved Vital Strike to the list.
6 feats, total; Aspect of the Beast loses the effectiveness, and therefore reason, to include one of the options in your decision tree. With the lack of ability to improve your attack with the Claws of the Beast option from Aspect of the Beast, Eldritch Fangs is not worth taking. Especially since they probably mean Eldritch Claws, not Eldritch Fangs, since I can't find a feat named Eldritch Fangs. Rending Claws moves well on the way to useless, since you are less likely to be able to hit with both claw attacks without the ability to minimize the attack penalty, which drops the whole bonus feat list from possible to something where you get the situation where most Natural Weapon Rangers in Society would look very similar; if anyone decides to play one with all the limitations, of course.
YMMV, but it looks to me like losing those bonus feats knocks the heck out of this whole Ranger variant.
{Typos galore}
Right, when that nominally illegal feat is listed as automatically gained, it is allowed, but when it is just added to an overall list of choices, it is still not allowed. I just wish I could find the official posts about this, but I have to run to work and don't have the time to look right now.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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YMMV, but it looks to me like losing those bonus feats knocks the heck out of this whole Ranger variant.
I'm sorry. I understood what you said, and I've seen a lot of non-Paizo people say that, but I was looking for the source of that stance. The only source I've seen presented was one in the 3.0 FAQ by JF saying you can't take Multiattack as a character level feat EVER! Or something similar. I've read every post on google 'site:Paizo.com ("multi attack" OR Multiattack) (PFS OR "pathfinder society")' and been unable to find any official response that covers this case Natual Weapon Ranger or the Eagle Shaman Druid. I run a lot of local PFS games and I've got two players (Ranger and the Druid) using these features, as I can't find anything I consider official to reject it.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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You don't need to search the boards for this one. It's right there in the Guide, and reprinted on the Additional Resource page for convenience
Sigh.
Again, there are cases where those feats are allowed (Officially in a forum post and they were aware of the "not legal" stance of them.) So while I appreciate the hard line stance of "it is never ever ever allowed" that simply isn't a truth.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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take ages to go back through three years of these kinds of posts and try to figure out which are currently relevant and which aren't.
Not to mention the changes in stance, like the one where I had a PC make an Intelligent item. I asked and Josh Frost explicitly replied to my post saying it following the Intelligent item rules it was legal for PFS. Then a couple years later when I created a PC with an Intelligent item and bought it, the first game I sat down at someone said it wasn't valid and sure enough the current stance is they are not valid. I didn't have the time to look through the forums for that rules nugget and it wasn't covered in the item purchasing rules in the Oct guide. So how was I supposed to know without spending ages of time?
OK, I found while on break what I was remembering about this topic.
This thread answers the question, at least for animal companions, and I am sure there is yet another post where this ruling applied to characters too. Here is the pertinent quote from Mark:
Feats granted as part of an animal companion's established progression are not eliminated, but you may not select Improved Natural Armor or Ability Focus when the creature receives new feats when it gains an odd Hit Die.
I am going to necro that thread and see if Mark or Hyrum will say anything about it applying to all aspects of a character or just animal companions.