I saw PVP arena like PbP, and i'm partecipating in a lot of PbP games, both as player and GM.
The thing i dislike the most in PbP games is the time it requires to lvl up.
But there is no need to start from lvl 1 and play entire campaigns that could last for years only to have lvl 5 or 6 char.
I would like to try a game of arena fights, without background story,plots, roleplay or else; only fights between epic level PCs and very high CR creatures.
Of course this is just an experiment, don't know if there is already such a game on these boards either
wouldnt mind playing in one. I've created a few characters for these over the years, but for some reason they never went far. perhaps with the wider audience here on Paizo's boards, such a contest would stand a better chance of going the distance
So far there isn't much interest, besides it takes time to design CR15+ monsters.I also would like to try at least one thought, we shall see.
I think that it could be done with 4 or 5 people including me.
But would like to change DM have not enough time to be tho only one
If its just basically gladitorial style combat, no story just whoopins, I would have no problem co-DMing, as I could rly use more experience running combats
Edit: that being said I want to PLAY as well, got a few high lvls concepts id like to explore, especially if we allow 3.5 books and monster races, though the monster races are more interesting than needing 3.5 books
I am in.
If its just basically gladitorial style combat, no story just whoopins, I would have no problem co-DMing, as I could rly use more experience running combats
Edit: that being said I want to PLAY as well, got a few high lvls concepts id like to explore, especially if we allow 3.5 books and monster races, though the monster races are more interesting than needing 3.5 books
We should start counting people and who wants to be co-DM.
I can DM this, and want to play either.I have tons of 3,5 books i never had the time to read (but mine is the italian translation, so not sure how reliable it can be).Since this no regular campaign and story based play, would have no problem allowing monster races.
I think that you should come up with a set of rules in the meantime. The rules should read the same no matter the language. The only thing is that some of us have a bigger book collection than others, maybe even the DM so each DM should feel free to restrict books, spells, and so on accordingly.
I think that you should come up with a set of rules in the meantime. The rules should read the same no matter the language. The only thing is that some of us have a bigger book collection than others, maybe even the DM so each DM should feel free to restrict books, spells, and so on accordingly.
As for char creation i was thinking 25 pnt buy,2 traits and starting lvl 15.No need for background story, add it if you feel like it.
Normal starting gold as for PF corebook (240,000 gp if i'm not wrong) and no restriction of alignments.Have to look for race/class allowance
I think that you should come up with a set of rules in the meantime. The rules should read the same no matter the language. The only thing is that some of us have a bigger book collection than others, maybe even the DM so each DM should feel free to restrict books, spells, and so on accordingly.
As for char creation i was thinking 25 pnt buy,2 traits and starting lvl 15.No need for background story, add it if you feel like it.
Normal starting gold as for PF corebook (240,000 gp if i'm not wrong) and no restriction of alignments.
Have to look for race/class allowance
While creating 15th levels combatants is fine by me, technically epic is 21+.
what about doing this in rounds: in round 1 all characters are 15th level, in round two 25th level, etc.
What about some kind of point-based ladder system? Say, a victory would net you +2 points, while a defeat would be -1, with bonus points for defeating higher CR opponents?
I think that you should come up with a set of rules in the meantime. The rules should read the same no matter the language. The only thing is that some of us have a bigger book collection than others, maybe even the DM so each DM should feel free to restrict books, spells, and so on accordingly.
As for char creation i was thinking 25 pnt buy,2 traits and starting lvl 15.No need for background story, add it if you feel like it.
Normal starting gold as for PF corebook (240,000 gp if i'm not wrong) and no restriction of alignments.
Have to look for race/class allowanceWhile creating 15th levels combatants is fine by me, technically epic is 21+.
what about doing this in rounds: in round 1 all characters are 15th level, in round two 25th level, etc.
I think we should start at 15 to see if anyone even wants to attempt the epic levels. I will take level 18 if we go that high later on, mostly because I already have monsters I can use at that level.
What about some kind of point-based ladder system? Say, a victory would net you +2 points, while a defeat would be -1, with bonus points for defeating higher CR opponents?
Since we are going to be switching DM's, levels, and do on I think each match should stand on its own.
Seems that some of you is much more experienced than me with such games.
I thought of simply goes one level higher with each victory, and yes, i know epic is 21+, but so far there are no true epic rules for PF, we would have to use the "Epic level handbooks" from 3,5
Yes and no on the epic PF rules: while there currently is no Epic PF rulebook, there is the guidelines found in one of the later chapters of Core, plus most classes have features that could readily extend into epic.
Not sure if its such a good idea in this instance to base lvling on victories. While normally that is fine in regular adventures and games, I think it best to go with my suggestion of rounds. This way, in case somebody gets killed early either through poor design or bad luck, they get to come back in the nxt round, no harm no foul.
If worried about winners, we could work out a point based system, or just go with most total wins, or something else entirely.
Point is, we should make this as fun for everybody as possible, as well as making this a learning experience. Id hate to spend time creating a 15th level character, only to loose in my first fight due to bad die rolls and thus be stuck at 15 while everybody else manages to win and level.
I thought we were fighting monsters ran by a DM. I think going against a person makes it easier to die in round 1 since they will most likely be better than a monster.
Yes and no on the epic PF rules: while there currently is no Epic PF rulebook, there is the guidelines found in one of the later chapters of Core, plus most classes have features that could readily extend into epic.
Not sure if its such a good idea in this instance to base lvling on victories. While normally that is fine in regular adventures and games, I think it best to go with my suggestion of rounds. This way, in case somebody gets killed early either through poor design or bad luck, they get to come back in the nxt round, no harm no foul.
If worried about winners, we could work out a point based system, or just go with most total wins, or something else entirely.
Point is, we should make this as fun for everybody as possible, as well as making this a learning experience. Id hate to spend time creating a 15th level character, only to loose in my first fight due to bad die rolls and thus be stuck at 15 while everybody else manages to win and level.
Point taken, you are right.
I thought we were fighting monsters ran by a DM. I think going against a person makes it easier to die in round 1 since they will most likely be better than a monster.
Such was my intention.
I suggested starting lvl 15 so i can see what the balance and the difficulty could be
What about the arena setting? Should it be all gladiator-style arenas, or would it be any type of setting (such as underwater, or the top of a mountain, or planar, etc)?
Would prefer to give every monster some habitat that gives it the chance of using its skills. Like a great wyrm red dragon in a rocky cave, so he has a lot of stone to melt with his breath weapon ^_^
Even if this is just against monsters both my points remain valid. If Wraith is vastly better at building characters at this level than I am, chances are he'll survive, whereas I might not too some poor choices on my part. And bad luck with dice affect you regardless of who or what ur fighting.
There was a very high lvl epic arena style game a few yrs back on Dicefreaks that used special godly rules created by a guy named Upper_Krust. One of the players had a poor understanding of the rules, plus lacked the book itself so his combatant while good n rather badass, was not nearly as good as he coulda been. Thus he pretty got and was gonna get ownd by the rest of us. Id rather that not here, especially if levels are not fixed and we plan to increase them.
Even if this is just against monsters both my points remain valid. If Wraith is vastly better at building characters at this level than I am, chances are he'll survive, whereas I might not too some poor choices on my part. And bad luck with dice affect you regardless of who or what ur fighting.
There was a very high lvl epic arena style game a few yrs back on Dicefreaks that used special godly rules created by a guy named Upper_Krust. One of the players had a poor understanding of the rules, plus lacked the book itself so his combatant while good n rather badass, was not nearly as good as he coulda been. Thus he pretty got and was gonna get ownd by the rest of us. Id rather that not here, especially if levels are not fixed and we plan to increase them.
To me, high level PC here are strong enough without bothering wih godlike and such, or else we could play some superhero system.And i never tried really high level combat in PF, this is why i wanted to start from a level i more or less know from games like NeverwinterNights , and i only played once at tabletop levels 15+ with 3,5.
Thus i have a lot of doubts:How to choose the creatures to battle? If the average party level is 15 will a CR 16 be too weak or too hard? How to reward winners?
I'd like to give some interest, if you're still accepting. I'd also like to say that I found a set of epic homebrew rules and can post a link later, if anyone wants to check them out
Gandal, I was suggesttin we use any form of divinity rules. Rather that part of the post was to illustrate how a player who was in a similar style game was at a srs disadvantage and my desire to not see such repeated here.
Before we get too far ahead of ourselves, let's figure out some basics:
1) do we want to go with my suggestion of rounds, with each round raising the PCs levels? We could even just go up one level at a time, so it would take 5 such fights to get to level 20
2) is this supposed to be a party or solo style?? If its a party, than its more an excersie in /playtest of high level rules and combat. This would negate the need for determining winners.
3) I would really like to be able to field a couple of different characters over this whole thing. While it might make things somewhat more complicated, it would allow further exploration of the rules.
4) Finally, I think the following should be allowed as "sources":
Anything Pathfinder official, the PHBII, the complete books, the Races books, and Tome of Battle.
HOWEVER, if a DM does *not* have access to one of those books, and you desire material from one or more of them, than the you need to email the DM what you want, and he/she can then decide if it's allowed in their particular part of the game.
I think this is the most fair way of doing this, as well as allowing a fair amount of extra goodies beyond what we get from PF.
Would prefer to give every monster some habitat that gives it the chance of using its skills. Like a great wyrm red dragon in a rocky cave, so he has a lot of stone to melt with his breath weapon ^_^
I will probably regret this but dragons are better when they have the option to fly or not fly.
Even if this is just against monsters both my points remain valid. If Wraith is vastly better at building characters at this level than I am, chances are he'll survive, whereas I might not too some poor choices on my part. And bad luck with dice affect you regardless of who or what ur fighting.
There was a very high lvl epic arena style game a few yrs back on Dicefreaks that used special godly rules created by a guy named Upper_Krust. One of the players had a poor understanding of the rules, plus lacked the book itself so his combatant while good n rather badass, was not nearly as good as he coulda been. Thus he pretty got and was gonna get ownd by the rest of us. Id rather that not here, especially if levels are not fixed and we plan to increase them.
To me, high level PC here are strong enough without bothering wih godlike and such, or else we could play some superhero system.And i never tried really high level combat in PF, this is why i wanted to start from a level i more or less know from games like NeverwinterNights , and i only played once at tabletop levels 15+ with 3,5.
Thus i have a lot of doubts:
How to choose the creatures to battle? If the average party level is 15 will a CR 16 be too weak or too hard? How to reward winners?
Assuming all things are equal the player with the most books will have the best character. As for the monsters they should all be boss fights which means at APL+4 at a minimum. If you get a lot of volunteers you might need more than on monsters. I actually have found out that one a CR X encounter composed of a boss + minions is generally tougher than one really strong monster with the same CR. You should choose the monsters based on what you are trying to find out about high level play.
I think 15 is a good start, and every fight after that goes up a level unless you want to toy around with a certain level for a while. I don't really need a reward. If a character dies from a fight I would not let it matter. Each fight is in no way related to the others is a better way to do it.Maybe if you come up with a field of questions for yourself, I am assuming this is some sort of experiment, you can choose monsters better. You can also ask some of us to play certain character types. If you just want to see what happens against X level parties then I guess we can just play what we want.
As part of your final rules document I would also state what books are allowed and so on. I would advise against allowing anything that you or at least a 2nd participant does not really know the rules for.
Yes, going one level up once every fight was my initial intention.
Because of this, i don't think there will be need for loot or xp.
My initial thought was a party of 4 or 5 against a CR of at least APL+3 (single or mob), but since interest is increasing each day i could skip the idea of using a char of mine in the same fight i'm DMing, but that would further require i get to play also.
I don't have yet the "complete" PF books, but have all those of 3,5.
Of 3,5 i also got all base books, Bestiary 1,2,3 and Faerun's.
Faerun campaign book, epic level book,savage races,Draconomicon (not sure if there is more than one, but i got the first in such case) and many many others
I thought the intent was 1-vs-1, whether PC vs PC or PC vs monster, but I suppose Party vs APL+3/+4 would be fine too.
In any case, I have all 3.0/3.5 WotC books, plus most of Paizo's books for both 3.5 and PF. As far as I would be concerned, anything would go for games where I was DM.
Would prefer to give every monster some habitat that gives it the chance of using its skills. Like a great wyrm red dragon in a rocky cave, so he has a lot of stone to melt with his breath weapon ^_^I will probably regret this but dragons are better when they have the option to fly or not fly.
Yes, that too of course.A rocky area at the top of a mountain under open sky. <Well, this goes against MY eventual PC either>
Yes, going one level up once every fight was my initial intention.
Because of this, i don't think there will be need for loot or xp.
My initial thought was a party of 4 or 5 against a CR of at least APL+3 (single or mob), but since interest is increasing each day i could skip the idea of using a char of mine in the same fight i'm DMing, but that would further require i get to play also.
I don't have yet the "complete" PF books, but have all those of 3,5.
Of 3,5 i also got all base books, Bestiary 1,2,3 and Faerun's.
Faerun campaign book, epic level book,savage races,Draconomicon (not sure if there is more than one, but i got the first in such case) and many many others
The Ultimate magic, and combat books are not out yet, and still in developmental stage. I would keep those out for now, but it is up to you.
Of course, that is the reason i don't have them :-)
Of course, that is the reason i don't have them :-)
Is this still going to happen?
Everyone stopped posting here.I would give it a try, but was waiting to hear from the people who answered.
Ok, i'll start thinking at the first fight, and will plan a PC of my own depending on what we'll have
Mind if I create a character as well? Level 15, correct?
OK so rules are:
Level 15, 25 Point buy, Paizo books, plus which 3.5 books?? need an actual list to work with.
Since this is combat only i don't think there will be any problem with using weird races, but be aware i don't know all the classes/races from both pathfinder/3,5 either.
I can tell you i have Savage Races,Races of Faerun,Epic Level Handbook and all of the Complete books from 3,5.
For PF i have Corebook and Bestiary one only.Everything else i'ld have to look on D20SRD or similare sites
As soon as a complete rules list is posted I can start on a character also.
Since i have the books i listed above you can use those, Savages races included.
Lvl 15
2traits
No background story needed
No alignment restrictions
25 points buy
240,000 starting gold (better you spend till the last gp, since you won't be using money in game)
The APG is allowed,but i have to read it online
I will probably have something up in the next day or so. I will also show my math so that if you check characters you won't have to do any reverse engineering.
Mind if I create a character as well? Level 15, correct?
Sorry, missed your post.Go for it, i'm still not sure how many will be participating
RPG Superstar 2013
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I'd be careful about allowing 3.0 or 3.25 books like Savage Species. Admittedly, most issues of game balance with that specific book tends to work against a PC.
But I'd defintely allow 3.5 options and the APG.
So what's our goal? Nonroleplay single combat? When do we need a build by?
I'd be careful about allowing 3.0 or 3.25 books like Savage Species. Admittedly, most issues of game balance with that specific book tends to work against a PC.
But I'd defintely allow 3.5 options and the APG.
So what's our goal? Nonroleplay single combat? When do we need a build by?
As for balance, i never tried to mix 3,5 and PF, but CRs in PF seem to be a lot harder even with lower CRs.
If someone is more expert than me i'll accept suggestion, i only would like to try arena fights between high level, 5 max PC party against high CRs foes.Still unsure how to handle victories.
I'll try to plan a first arena for this weekend (try to understand me....i'm already running two PbP games, and playing in other 4)
So what's everyone thinking of making? I'm considering either a blasty sorcerer or a ranger or a mounted combat summoner or something else entirely...
I'd be careful about allowing 3.0 or 3.25 books like Savage Species. Admittedly, most issues of game balance with that specific book tends to work against a PC.
But I'd defintely allow 3.5 options and the APG.
So what's our goal? Nonroleplay single combat? When do we need a build by?
As for balance, i never tried to mix 3,5 and PF, but CRs in PF seem to be a lot harder even with lower CRs.
If someone is more expert than me i'll accept suggestion, i only would like to try arena fights between high level, 5 max PC party against high CRs foes.
Still unsure how to handle victories.
I'll try to plan a first arena for this weekend (try to understand me....i'm already running two PbP games, and playing in other 4)
I agree that it is easier to control without 3.5 stuff. I thought were going to do a team vs Monster(s) match. If we do PVP it should be limited to 3 on 3. Other than that it gets time consuming. If we do the team then it can be 5 on a team vs the monsters, but the number can change depending on the number or people. As an example if there are 8 of us then 4 people get to fighter then 4 more people get to fight. I would not reward victories. I would each fight be separate from all the others. I am not worried about a build date until we figure out exactly what we want to do. I think your original idea of player vs a monster is good if you want to test out high level monsters.
Limiting things to pathfinder also ensures that nobody has an advantage just because they have access to more books.
I'm thinking either Rogue or go Fighter, either Mobile or that Duelist from the Inner Sea Primer.