Heighten-Dazing Spell-Spell Perfection-Magic Missile is this legal?

[sunbeam]

I was toying with some sorcerer builds and something struck me.

Take the heighten spell, Dazing Spell, and Spell Perfection (Magic Missile).

Use heighten to make it a spell of the highest level you can cast. For the sake of argument let's say you are level 20 and can cast 9th level spells.

Spell perfection let's you use one metamagic feat on a particular spell, without using a higher level slot.

Dazing spell forces you to make a save or be dazed for a period of time equal to the original level of the spell (I don't think that matters, but I could be wrong.)

So if I read this right, I can heighten magic missile to 9th level, using spell perfection to ignore the need to use a 9th level spot.

Then I use a 4th level slot cast that spell using the dazing spell feat.

So I can make one target make 5 dc 19+charisma mod+whatever saves or be dazed for 9 rounds? Or 5 targets (you can mix and match if you want 3 to one, 1 to two others etc.) make a single save at the same dc as above?

That is legal right?

[Fatespinner]

I would say that a given target can only be subjected to one save against the dazing effect regardless of how many missiles strike him. This is in line with other "on spell" effects such as the Evoker's "Intense Spells" school ability that adds bonus damage PER CASTING, not per missile or per ray.

The combo seems otherwise legitimate, though, and you could certainly force five targets to make a save vs. dazing, but not one target to make five saves.

[sunbeam]

Fatespinner wrote:

I would say that a given target can only be subjected to one save against the dazing effect regardless of how many missiles strike him. This is in line with other "on spell" effects such as the Evoker's "Intense Spells" school ability that adds bonus damage PER CASTING, not per missile or per ray.

The combo seems otherwise legitimate, though, and you could certainly force five targets to make a save vs. dazing, but not one target to make five saves.

Okay, that makes sense. Another question though, since dazing spell adds a save effect (will if the original spell didn't have a save), could you use persistent spell with the same combo? ie, use a 6th level slot for a dazing persistent spell with spell perfection used to heighten to 9th level?

[Fatespinner]

sunbeam wrote:

Okay, that makes sense. Another question though, since dazing spell adds a save effect (will if the original spell didn't have a save), could you use persistent spell with the same combo? ie, use a 6th level slot for a dazing persistent spell with spell perfection used to heighten to 9th level?

Again, based on the wording of the rules, I would say no.

Persistent Spell wrote:

Benefit: Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area succeeds on its saving throw against the spell, it must make another saving throw against the effect. If a creature fails this second saving throw, it suffers the full effects of the spell, as if it had failed its first saving throw. A persistent spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.

Spells that do not require a saving throw to resist or lessen the spell's effect do not benefit from this feat.

The spell itself does not require a saving throw and thus it is ineligible. The save vs. the dazing effect is a save vs. the effect of the feat, not the spell.

[Mr.Alarm]

There was a similar post some time ago but with color spray. I believe someone with authority said that you can't use spell perfection to heighten a spell, I think its in an Errata, but I know for fact its not in the book.

[ithuriel]

If you Heighten it to 9th level you've already capped it out and can't apply more metamagic on top of that. But I was wondering about that. I was surprised the language doesn't explicitly exclude Heighten.

prd wrote:

Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level.

[Fatespinner]

ithuriel wrote:

If you Heighten it to 9th level you've already capped it out and can't apply more metamagic on top of that. But I was wondering about that. I was surprised the language doesn't explicitly exclude Heighten.

prd wrote:

Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level.

Ah, good catch. That's right.

As for Spell Perfection specifically exluding Heighten or not, it's a feat with fairly lofty prerequisites that allows you to boost ONE SPELL out of your entire arsenal. Given the limitation of "no spell slots above 9th" that you've pointed out, I'm not convinced that barring Heighten from the eligibility of Spell Perfection is necessary. It's not like you can take Spell Perfection multiple times and apply it to several key spells to make an uber-combo or anything.

Personally I think there are much better things to use Spell Perfection on besides magic missile. :)