Picked up the following from the unofficial Pathfinder FAQ:
Q: I looked over the magic item crafting rules and was unable to find an explicit statement on this question: Does creating a magic item require the creator to be of the same or higher caster level of the item itself? This doesn't seem to square with the CLs listed for specific magic items; for instance, a Belt of Giant Strength +2 has CL 8th, but the only spell required in its creation, bull's strength, has a minimum caster level of 3. Am I missing anything here?
A: For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level).
Since when? I've always heard it told that a 1st-levelc aster could make a CL 20th item (excluding potions, scrolls, and spell trigger items) provided he was able to make the Spellcraft DCs.
Take the Pearl of Power (1st) as an example.
Is this FAQ in error? Or was their some official update to the rules that I overlooked?
My understanding from 3e (which may be wrong) was that it was confusing but it went like this:
Each item has a listed CL which indicates the CL of found treasure items. This CL differs from the minimum CL required to craft the item, which is always set by the necessary spells and feats required.
The former is an arbitrary number set to make life convenient for GMs and players with found treasure, and has nothing to do with crafting. The confusion is made worse by its proximity to the crafting pre-reqs.
When in doubt, look at the spells and feats required, and figure out the necessary caster level, ignoring any higher number that appears in actual item entries.
Now, this interpretation may be wrong. All I remember is that this was the conclusion we reached after several weeks of bickering and FAQ referencing like 10 years ago.
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The was covered in a very recent thread. And the actual question covered by errata.
there is errata has been written about CL being a requirement in creating an item.
It is in errata 2.1.
• Page 460—In the Magic Items Description section,
under Caster Level, delete the last sentence of the
second paragraph.
that is the line that mentions CL as a hard requirement in creating items.
So CL is not a requirement in creating anymore. Only those things listed in the line @ the end of an items description are required. Generally these are the needed creation feats and spells used.
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That's an error. See the official Pathfinder FAQ:
What is the caster level required to create a pearl of power?
Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.
However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.
For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
(SKR, 8/18/10)
–Sean K Reynolds (08/18/10)
Sean's clarified in other threads that, unless you're making a weapon/armor (which specifically indicates the CL as a requirement) or the CL is mentioned in the Requirements section (instead of just the top right), then it is not a requirement to craft.
Happy to hear it. Now, who do I go to about updating said unofficial FAQ?
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Happy to hear it. Now, who do I go to about updating said unofficial FAQ?
If you're talking about the FAQ on d20pfsrd.org, the contact email is at the top of the FAQ page.
If you're talking about a different source, you'll need to provide a link to what you're talking about.
Happy to hear it. Now, who do I go to about updating said unofficial FAQ?If you're talking about the FAQ on d20pfsrd.org, the contact email is at the top of the FAQ page.
If you're talking about a different source, you'll need to provide a link to what you're talking about.
Thanks. That's what I meant.
So if the CL is no longer an issue, is there no longer a die roll involved in the process?
New here and to Pathfinder. My group just made the transition a few months ago and we're still struggling with the rules. Especially the item creation feats.
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So if the CL is no longer an issue, is there no longer a die roll involved in the process?
New here and to Pathfinder. My group just made the transition a few months ago and we're still struggling with the rules. Especially the item creation feats.
The CL is no longer a *requirement*, but it is still a factor in determining the Spellcraft (or Craft) DC to actually forge the item.
I'm still scratching my head on here..
Ok, my 5th lvl wizard wants to create a wand of magic missle. So the formula goes; 375gp X 1(lvl of the spell magic missles) X 5 (my caster lvl). And there it stops. I see what it costs, but where's the roll? What's the difficulty class?
My spellcraft is 16.
I'm still scratching my head on here..
Ok, my 5th lvl wizard wants to create a wand of magic missle. So the formula goes; 375gp X 1(lvl of the spell magic missles) X 5 (my caster lvl). And there it stops. I see what it costs, but where's the roll? What's the difficulty class?
My spellcraft is 16.
Since it's a CL 5 wand, the craft DC would be 10 (5+5).
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Since it's a CL 5 wand, the craft DC would be 10 (5+5).
Um, I thought the base DC of 5 (as listed in the Magic Item Creation section of the rules) was errata'd to a base DC of 10 (as described in some other section of the rules; the item creation feats, perhaps?).
Is R.D. just a little behind on this one too?
Q: In Chapter 4: Feats (pg. 112), the DC to craft a magic item is 10 + the item's caster level. In Chapter 15: Magic Items (pg. 548), the DC is listed as 5 + the item's caster level. Which is correct?
A: (Jason Bulmahn) I believe the Magic Items chapter is correct and the DC should be 5 + caster level, but I am still looking into the issue. Either way, this will be corrected. [Source]
Sean's clarified in other threads that, unless you're making a weapon/armor (which specifically indicates the CL as a requirement) or the CL is mentioned in the Requirements section (instead of just the top right), then it is not a requirement to craft.
That "requirement" is another one that can be negotiated with an extra +5 to the DC. About the only thing everyone agrees to on the various threads about magic item creation is that the creator must have the relevant creation feat.
The magic item creation rules are in a serious need of rewriting/major clarifications.
The magic item creation rules are in a serious need of rewriting/major clarifications.
I'll agree with you there. My DM has made the rules so that you have to be the caster level listed (i.e. under aura not creation) or for every level you are short of it, the craft DC goes up by 2. Additional +5 if its over 2 levels from your own. Also you can't take 10. So for a level 5 wizard to make a pearl of power level 1 it is level 5 (base)+17(Item CL)+24(2xdifference in level)+5(more than 2 levels)=51. Ridonkulous.
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Yeah, that's pretty horrible. I absolutely abhor that house rule. The Caster Levels that so many items have just seems so arbitrary and pointless. Some really expensive and powerful items have a low CL, while other simple and cheap items have a high one.
My personal house rules are as follows:
If using Craft (): 5 + CL.
If using Spellcraft: 10 + CL.
- Craft Magic Arms & Armor (Weapons): Weaponsmithing
- Craft Magic Arms & Armor (Armor): Armorsmithing
- Craft Magic Arms & Armor (Augment Crystals): Gemcutting
- Brew Potion: Alchemy
- Forge Ring: Gemcutting
- Craft Rod: Blacksmithing
- Scribe Scroll: Calligraphy
- Craft Stave: Blacksmithing
- Craft Wondrous Items (Bags, Clothing, etc.): Tailoring
- Craft Wondrous Items (Sculptures, Figurines, etc.): Blacksmithing
- Craft Wondrous Items (Mirrors, Lenses, etc.): Gemcutting
- Craft Wondrous Items (Elixirs, Solvents, etc.): Alchemy
- Craft Wondrous Items (Tome, Manual, etc.): Calligraphy
Missing required skill-based requirement: +5
Missing required spell (on crafter's spell-list): +5
Missing required spell (on other spell-list): +10
Missing required race: +15
Missing required alignment: +15
Missing required class feature / class levels: +15
Missing required Caster Level: +10+X (X is the difference between the crafter's current CL and the required CL)
Assisted with a requirement (spell): +2
Assisted with a requirement (skill): +2
Reduce crafting time by up to 32 hours (max. half normal time): +5
Reduce crafting time by up to 112 hours (max. half normal time): +10
Reduce crafting time by up to 800 hours (max. half normal time): +15
When calculating the final bonus to their Craft or Spellcraft roll, only permanent bonuses that were present the entire time of crafting count.
If a user wishes, more specific Crafts can be used in place of some of the above ones. For example, if a Ranger that only makes magic bows and arrows has Craft (Bowmaking), he can use that in conjunction with Craft Magic Arms and Armor to make magic bows and arrows. This is entirely up to the player, it is obviously more beneficial from a mechanical viewpoint to use Craft (Weaponsmithing) (so it can apply to every weapon) but if he only ever makes bows/arrows and feels it would be more in character, that is perfectly fine.
Those assisting with a spell on the craft need to expend the spell each day of crafting, but otherwise need not spend any time with the item. If they are assisting with a skill, however, they need to be present at least half of the time.
If a character meets every requirement of the crafting, they can 'take 10' on their respective Craft or Spellcraft roll. If they are missing anything, they must roll normally.
Lastly, some requirements (race, alignment, class features, etc.) cannot be assisted with, and the DC goes up by a large amount (+15) if they are missing. However, they can be faked with a successful Use Magic Device check made once per 8 hours of attempted craft. Like the final Craft/Spellcraft roll, only bonuses that are present the entire time of crafting count. If a Use Magic Device check fails, then those 8 hours are wasted. If the Use Magic Device check fails by 5 or more, the crafter also wastes the 500 gp used for that day. In either case, the project can be resumed the following day.
Those house rules look good to me. A heckuva lot clearer too in that format. One question? What skill is the prereq for Craft Wand? Ok, maybe two questions. The feat skill focus gives a +3 to any skill. Maybe the difference on crafting between using the specific skill and using spellcraft should be the same?
Gotta get my DM over here.. I like the looks of this alot better. Thanks.