could work, no lvl 9 spells though... But you can take the extra revelation feat several times to gain new revelations...
A friend of mine has wondered this very thing (although I must say I like your idea about arcane bloodline & healing mystery). I agree with you that flavor wise this concept/build would be a lot of fun. And if you aren't focused on spells, or don't care that you'll be woefully behind other (possible) dedicated spellcasters in the group then this might be a character concept worth doing.
Another "ding" against it, is that your bloodline arcana stuff wouldn't improve with levels in Mystic Theurge (at least not like sorcerer (w/ draconic bloodline) stacks with Dragon Disciple. Nor would your revelations/mysteries stuff improve.
Hmmm... I like the concept of it, but unless you (or someone) were to create a PrC archetype of a Mystic Theurge that would work towards applying MT levels counting as sorcerer levels and oracle levels for the purposes of determining bloodline arcana, feats, and spells (plus oracle revelations and mysteries) you'd be missing out on some of your component classes best (some might say only) features.
That's just my 2 cents.
Dean
EDIT: Oops, Pavlovian mentioned something I didn't consider, taking extra revelations feat. That would make a difference with the oracle levels.
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It can work. However from a machanical point of view it's sub par. Pushing back your higher level spells even father. And removing your bloodline powers and revelations from helping your power level. This caps your highest level spell at 8th. Using a 6/4/10 split. Even thow they use the same casting mod. Low levels geting to MT will be brutal. Sorcerer/Orical stuck with your highest level spell at 2nd untill level 10. When you will get 3rd level spells. At level 10 thats puts a full caster with access to level 5. At the same time you will be only be Caster level 6 in each with cap of 3rd level spells. This will start to be a problem when you get this level. Monsters with SR of 20+ are not uncommon.
If you create some manner of homebrew theurge. Spellcasting alone is just 70% of the power of either class, unlike the Wizard/Cleric, who loses out on relatively little in comparison, the class abilities of sorcerer and oracle offsets their comparatively low spellcasting potential.
The only redeeming factor in going Sorc/Orc/MT is that you just need one stat; Cha. The downside is that charisma is a useless stat compared to int and wis, as it neither gives skills, nor will save.
I just have a quick question, is a Sorcerer/Oracle/Mystic Theurg build viable?
Yes. I'm currently playing one in our bi-monthly Pathfinder tabletop game; very versatile.
Although some dismiss the notion out of hand, the key to making it work is Paizo's Alternate Source Spell metamagic feat.
[Metamagic]
You can prepare any of your spells as either divine or arcane.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast both divine and arcane spells.
Benefit: You can choose to prepare any of your divine spells
as arcane spells or any of your arcane spells as divine spells. An
alternative-sourced spell uses up a spell slot from the class that
normally grants the spell. such a spell is prepared normally. An
alternative-sourced spell is cast as if your caster level were 1
level lower. For example, a 1st level cleric/6th level wizard casts
a divine fireball as a 5th level wizard.
could work, no lvl 9 spells though...
With this feat, one can gain access to 9th level spells by 19th character level; though either arcane or divine depending on which base class is favored.
But you can take the extra revelation feat several times to gain new revelations...
Don't forget the ring of revelations; my character has one.
The downside is that charisma is a useless stat compared to int and wis, as it neither gives skills, nor will save.
Unless you choose a revelation that changes that; such as sidestep secret from the Lore mystery. With it one gains their Cha bonus to AC, CMD and Reflex saves. Heck, with a ring of revelations imbued with the sidestep secret revelation and a sufficient bonus in Use Magic Device, one doesn't even need to choose the Lore revelation; best of both worlds.
I just have a quick question, is a Sorcerer/Oracle/Mystic Theurg build viable? Flavor wise i can see it being lots of fun. Perhaps Arcane bloodline / Healing Mystery.
Maybe this wont work. What do you think?
Terrible, terrible build. You have to be 8th level to fully qualify for MT at 9th, and you have 2nd level spells. A 9th level sorcerer knows 17 spells (not counting cantrips), while the Sor4/Ora4/MT1 knows 15 spells. So which is more versatile?
Now, eventually it's going to get better; at 12 level, the Sorcerer will know 24 spells, the MT will know 25. The Sorcerer is using 6th level spells, the MT is using 4th level.
Given that the regular MT build (Wiz/Clr/MT) is already a hard road through the lower levels, making it harder for yourself is going to be bad for you and your party. It's especially bad that you won't get all the compensating abilities for the Oracle's curse.
And the fact that you can focus just on CHA seems nice, but you won't have better CHA than the average pure Oracle or Sorcerer; you just benefit from less MAD than the standard Wiz/Clr/MT candidate; at the cost of being one spell level behind THEM (two behind a pure full caster).
I kind of like it as a Fire Elemental Fire Oracle, so you can cast everything fire based
My wife is running a Witch/Druid going for MT.
Mystic theurge is painful, weve tried bard/druids before.
Once you get there its worth it. Not everyone needs 9th level spells.
You'll be 10th level before you can cast a 3rd level spell, which is when a single classed spellcaster is casting 5th level spells. Also, you'll only know two 3rd level spells, one from each class. A cleric or wizard will know dozens, and a single class sorcerer or oracle would know 3. It turns out that by trying to double your spell variety, you'll have the least flexible spellcaster possible!
Also, the armor and fighting capabilities of the oracle will be negated by the sorcerer levels.
You might want to consider playing a witch. They get a mix of spells from both types.
yes and no depending on the campaign.
starting low and going into high, i say no, due to that your effectiveness will be nerfed heavily until later levels, as will your spells which is a primary for the sor and a half primary half secondary for the oracle
starting high, like round 12th level or whatever level you can get your first level of mystic theurge, i say yes, due to that youll be better on the power level.
but it all just depends on if youre wanting to make the character due to the class or due to the concept of the character.
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I floated this idea because I thought it would be a fun character concept.
Thank you all for your helpful posts.
It appears that an Oracle 4 Sorcerer 4 / Mystic theurge x won't work very well.
As you have pointed out the crux of the problem is the levels at which such a character would gain access to 2nd, 3rd 4th levels spells etc.
A wizard/ cleric gains access to 3rd level spells at 5th level. A Sorcerer/Oracle gains access to 3rd level spells at 6th level. A Cleric / Wizard Mystic Theurge gains access to 3rd level spells at 8th level. An Oracle / Sorcerer Mystic theurge gains access to 3rd level spells at 10 level as all have pointed out to me.
Perhaps I should try something “home brew”
How does this sound: 2 levels or oracle, 2 level of Sorcerer, then at 5th level go into the Mystic Theurge class. This way the character would gain access to 3rd level spells at 8th level. Do you think doing this would “unbalance” the game?
How about allowing the Sorcerer bloodline abilities, and Oracle abilities curse revelations channel energy etc to level off at 3rd level.
So at 3rd level he would have access 2nd level abilities, and 4th level abilities 3rd level abilities. Would this be “game unbalancing? Thanks
If you're willing to homebrew, you could go straight with a CHA-based, spontaneous casting Witch. Others have pointed out the Witch does most of what Mystic Theurges want anyways.
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Even if your not doing homebrew the Witch is a good choic. You get most of what your looking for.
Even if you use the ability scores for a heroic NPC.
15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.
Gnome Witch Patron (Deception or Shadow)
Str 8-2=6
Dex 12
Con 13+2=15
Int 15 (+1 at level 4,8,ect)
Wis 10
Cha 14+2=16
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I have played and enjoyed Mystic Theruges. In a previous campaign, I played a 3.5 Cloistered Cleric/ Wizard/ Mystic theurge. that was allot of fun.
He was an elf, his name was Amaril. everybody kept calling him Emeril, so Bam, I purchased ranks in Craft: Chief / cooking. He was allot of fun to play. He had a constant feud with his Raven Familiar. The raven would always be making fun of him, and he would always be threatening to make "blackbird pie" out of him. As part of the "back story" we said that his raven familiar, was actually his old mentor who fell victim to a Polymorph spell. I got him to 10 level
More recently i have a Mystic Theurge character in Pathfinder Society Organized play.
He is a Cleric of Pharasma / Necromancer. He sees positive energy- life, and Negative energy- death, as kind of a Ying yang relationship, and to fully understand life, you have to fully understand death. he is at 11 level.
I was thinking of another Permutation of the Mystic theurge, and i thought a sorcerer/oracle would be an interesting combination in terms of mechanics and i thought in terms of fluff, i thought i cold make lots of interesting characters.
But a witch might fit the bill.
thanks.
Has the Ring of Revelations been errata'd? because as written..
In particular:
"The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring,.."
You can't use it for a revelation for which you do not already have the mystery.. So if you aren't lore, you aren't getting Sidestep.
-S
Has the Ring of Revelations been errata'd? You can't use it for a revelation for which you do not already have the mystery.. So if you aren't lore, you aren't getting Sidestep.
What you said seems correct. I'm afraid I don't understand which part you believe requires errata...