For an upcoming campaign I'll be playing in, I began reading alot of the Cheliaxian background and fell in love with this kingdom of tarnished glory and lost virtue. After kicking around several character ideas I started to settle on the idea of a Hellknight, with the idea of a kinda divine knight of Law. Thinking of a paladin for my base class sounded just like what I wanted, but as I read more on the Hellknights themselves, as far as beliefs and the tenets of their orders, I sort of found myself asking, "How would a paladin even function with these guys?".
While a paladins desire for law would easily be satisfied, the first time a fellow Knight roughed up a individual or dispassionately carried out a sentence wouldn't they get a bit offended? Even if the paladin actively avoided assignments or other Knights who might put them in a delicate situation, eventually they will receive an order from a superior counter to their belief in good, and among a knightly military order founded on the template of the legions of Hell chain of command would be paramount.
So tl;dr, how do others see paladins working within the ranks of the Hellknights? Am I missing something?
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There are numerous ways a Paladin could be played with a Hellknight connections.
You could go down the Religious Zealot. Trust me you pound enough religion into one of these guys and some of the "bad" stuff that you notice would not only be overlooked, it might be encouraged. A real tough row to hoe here, but if you and your group are up for it (ie can handle someone being unpleasant) then it can be a loooooot of fun.
How about the martyred hero trying to reform the system from within. This guy could easily need a frequent atonement card...so could all of them now that I think about it...He can't fix the whole system, but he can fix that part he comes in contact with. "The ideals of the Hellknights are glorious, we don't live up to them but we Can if we try!"
The Disillusioned Martyr. He probably would be more of an Ex-Hellknight..."I thought they were good and pure and they made me eat live kittens and that's just wrong!" kind of character.
The naive one. "What? No they didn't do that, must have been someone else" or "You must be hearing the rumors spread by our enemies" This can easily lead into one of the above versions.
I am sure there are more, and I am sure you are up to the task...Go For It!
There are several Paladins in high rank within some of the Hellknight orders. The Hellknights are dedicated to law, and law is a large part of a Paladin, too. The orders of the Godclaw, the Nail, and the Scourge have LG high-ranking officials (with the Godclaw having a Paladin).
So, there should be a way to make it work.
There are several Paladins in high rank within some of the Hellknight orders. The Hellknights are dedicated to law, and law is a large part of a Paladin, too. The orders of the Godclaw, the Nail, and the Scourge have LG high-ranking officials (with the Godclaw having a Paladin).
So, there should be a way to make it work.
Yes, I understand that there are 5 LG Hellknights presented in What Lies in Dust, one of which is a paladin, though if you look she is a Hellknight in training and has no levels of the Hellknight PrC. Of the other four none have more then 3 levels of the PrC, so are still focused on the Path of the Measure, learning, memorizing, and meditating on the laws they are tasked with upholding. So while, by the crunch, paladins are allowed, I'm more curious about how this work in the fluff.
When the order of knighthood you belong to expouses such beliefs as, "each Hellknight is a tyrant, exacting his order’s strictures in the hopes of reordering society one soul at a time" and "Hellknights learn to embrace and exemplify a mindset alien to most mortals—an emotionless, cold existence wherein each member offers himself in sacrifice to a goal greater than any individual".
These statements, especially the parts I bolded, seem to go against the core principals of the paladin. I guess I can see a new recruit to the Hellknight maintaining their beliefs in good but as the progress in the order I don't see any other option then those beliefs being ground away.
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When the order of knighthood you belong to expouses such beliefs as, "each Hellknight is a tyrant, exacting his order’s strictures in the hopes of reordering society one soul at a time" and "Hellknights learn to embrace and exemplify a mindset alien to most mortals—an emotionless, cold existence wherein each member offers himself in sacrifice to a goal greater than any individual".
The tyrant part seems out of line (well, for the class, if not the majority of tabletop *players* I've gamed with over the years, who regard the class as an excuse to tyrannize their fellow players...), but the life of sacrifice to a goal greater than any individual, setting aside family connections, casual sex, games of chance, strong drink, luxurious or ostentatious displays of wealth, physical comforts, immoderate or intemperate behavior, etc. certainly sound like an appropriately Paladin-ly set of virtues, for a certain subset of paladins (ones living by a more Jesus-inspired set of virtues, anyway).
Note that 'tyrant' was a horrible word choice, in any event, as a tyrant is someone who *illegally* seizes power, something which no Hellknight, lawful good or lawful evil, is going to countenance. I think 'dictator' might have been a better choice.
Anywho, the Faction Guide lists Paladin as one of the three *best* class choices for a Hellknight player. Whatever bad things the Hellknights do, they, as an Order, seem to be smart enough to keep the Paladins among them assigned to duties (and with squad-mates) that won't wreck their class vows. I would suspect that the Order wouldn't have any Paladins, let alone significant ones, if they didn't account for such matters.
Seems pretty straightforward. When deciding what assets to send on what missions, you don't send a druid to negotiate with the merchant's guild over taxes and fees, you don't send a mage to guard a caravan into Alkenstar, you don't send the missionary cleric to Rahadoum, and you don't send a paladin with a bunch of LE thugs to put down a slave uprising at the salt mines 'by any means necessary.'
So long as the Hellknights organization can find suitable missions that involve the perpetuating of order and stopping dangerous outbreaks of lawlessness and banditry and the like, they'll have plenty for the paladins among them to do.
It's just asset management 101. Place the employees in positions that play to their strengths. The paladin is a high-strung temperamental specialist who requires a certain touch of finesse to manage. So is the Chelish fiend-binder. Never assign them to work together.
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Short answer... they won't. at least not for long and still remain a Paladin. that association with evil thing will get in the way one form or another.For an upcoming campaign I'll be playing in, I began reading alot of the Cheliaxian background and fell in love with this kingdom of tarnished glory and lost virtue. After kicking around several character ideas I started to settle on the idea of a Hellknight, with the idea of a kinda divine knight of Law. Thinking of a paladin for my base class sounded just like what I wanted, but as I read more on the Hellknights themselves, as far as beliefs and the tenets of their orders, I sort of found myself asking, "How would a paladin even function with these guys?".
I disagree. There's nothing inherently evil about the Hellknights. They're LN. Sure there are alot of LE members but that doesn't make the organization as a hole evil.
Becides the Hellknights were founded by LG fighters and Paladins. They studied the Devils for ways to learn new battle stratedgies, not ways to become evil. The LN ness of the order is in that they dont align themselves with king and country. There are those Inquisitor Mages and Knights who have become LN or even LE among the Hellknights, especially in Chelliax, but, the order itself and many of its members still hold to the original ideals of bringing order and peace to the populace and its halls are still filled with many LG and even NG fighters and LG paladins trying to make the world a better place. Think of the Hellknights as the Catholic chirch or the US Government. not everybody is evil or out to do something to Kids or Iraqies or whatever... Its the Press and the sad few that gives them a bad rep.
Als you can find this out in the write ups on the hellknights in the early Pathfinder stuff.