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I'm building a new wold for my wolf shaman (previous one was ogre'd to death) and I've been going over the animal companions. I've noticed weird things.
1. Animal companions don't seem to get the racial skill bonuses to skill checks real animals do. Is this on purpose? Should they get them? It's not a HUGE deal, but it really gimps an animal companion's already sad skills.
2. QUADRUPEDS! All quadrupeds in the Monster Manual get a bonus versus trip attempts- do animal companions get this? Are snake animal companions immune to trips like all other snakes? Can you really trip a snake animal companion?! Also, does being a quadruped affect carrying capacity?
I'm asking not only people's opinions on those things, but the official rulings, because, as a player, it's always easier to follow the official rules than ask the GM for a houserule.
Thanks in Advance!
I'm building a new wold for my wolf shaman (previous one was ogre'd to death) and I've been going over the animal companions. I've noticed weird things.
1. Animal companions don't seem to get the racial skill bonuses to skill checks real animals do. Is this on purpose? Should they get them? It's not a HUGE deal, but it really gimps an animal companion's already sad skills.
2. QUADRUPEDS! All quadrupeds in the Monster Manual get a bonus versus trip attempts- do animal companions get this? Are snake animal companions immune to trips like all other snakes? Can you really trip a snake animal companion?! Also, does being a quadruped affect carrying capacity?
I'm asking not only people's opinions on those things, but the official rulings, because, as a player, it's always easier to follow the official rules than ask the GM for a houserule.
Thanks in Advance!
I never questioned these things. Druids can be a lot of bookkeeping, and my girlfriend always plays the druid. As GM, I require my players to do their own bookkeeping and knowing the mechanics of what they want to do. The girlfriend is not good at that, so I frequently have to make notes for her in our off-time.
In all that time, her bear companion has not had to really bear a load or been subject to tripping, nor does he use skills frequently.
However, it only stands to reason that all of the above should apply evenly to animal companions as they do to normal animals. So no, snakes should not be trippable. Bonuses to stealth in [insert terrain]? Sure thing, it's not a game breaker. But as a GM, one should require the player to be aware of the companion's bonuses in each situation; don't create more work for yourself.
I'm building a new wold for my wolf shaman (previous one was ogre'd to death) and I've been going over the animal companions. I've noticed weird things.
1. Animal companions don't seem to get the racial skill bonuses to skill checks real animals do. Is this on purpose? Should they get them? It's not a HUGE deal, but it really gimps an animal companion's already sad skills.
2. QUADRUPEDS! All quadrupeds in the Monster Manual get a bonus versus trip attempts- do animal companions get this? Are snake animal companions immune to trips like all other snakes? Can you really trip a snake animal companion?! Also, does being a quadruped affect carrying capacity?
I'm asking not only people's opinions on those things, but the official rulings, because, as a player, it's always easier to follow the official rules than ask the GM for a houserule.
Thanks in Advance!
I never questioned these things. Druids can be a lot of bookkeeping, and my girlfriend always plays the druid. As GM, I require my players to do their own bookkeeping and knowing the mechanics of what they want to do. The girlfriend is not good at that, so I frequently have to make notes for her in our off-time.
In all that time, her bear companion has not had to really bear a load or been subject to tripping, nor does he use skills frequently.
However, it only stands to reason that all of the above should apply evenly to animal companions as they do to normal animals. So no, snakes should not be trippable. Bonuses to stealth in [insert terrain]? Sure thing, it's not a game breaker. But as a GM, one should require the player to be aware of the companion's bonuses in each situation; don't create more work for yourself.
I ask more for posterity and the fact that I use a wolf to help me track and that +4 to track would come in handy. The carrying capacity thing would just be good to know in general.
As to the first question, no, they don't get racial skill bonuses--what you see is what you get. It sort of creates a bit of disconnect (similar to "Why does my leopard have Sprint instead of a climb speed?" or "What do you mean my wolf is bigger than my bear?"), but that's how it works.
As for the second question, the bonus vs. trip attempts is given to any creature with 4 or more legs, even if the creature's description doesn't explicitly call it out--just like their improved carrying capacity.
As to the first question, no, they don't get racial skill bonuses--what you see is what you get. It sort of creates a bit of disconnect (similar to "Why does my leopard have Sprint instead of a climb speed?" or "What do you mean my wolf is bigger than my bear?"), but that's how it works.
As for the second question, the bonus vs. trip attempts is given to any creature with 4 or more legs, even if the creature's description doesn't explicitly call it out--just like their improved carrying capacity.
Where does it say that extra legs give a bonus to trips or improve their carrying capacity?
It should say in the rules for carrying capacity (in the Adventuring/Extra rules chapter?) and in the CMB "trip" description.
Edit: Yep, in the "Additional Rules" chapter where it discusses encumbrance, and in the description of the Trip maneuver in the "Combat" chapter. They also get bonuses against the Overrun maneuver.
It should say in the rules for carrying capacity (in the Adventuring/Extra rules chapter?) and in the CMB "trip" description.
I don't know why I couldn't find this. Thanks.
The skill thing is just something that irritated me- in many ways my wolf is worse than a standard wolf, sure he's a better combatant, but he's less naturally skilled. I don't think it would be overpowered to give animal companions the racial skill bonuses of the animals.
So if I get my game back up, and the mage character chooses a cat familiar, I can let the cat have the high stealth? I am the GM after all.
So if I get my game back up, and the mage character chooses a cat familiar, I can let the cat have the high stealth? I am the GM after all.
in your home game the GM can modify any of the rules as he or she sees fit (at least as long as your players agree to go along with those changes).
So if I get my game back up, and the mage character chooses a cat familiar, I can let the cat have the high stealth? I am the GM after all.in your home game the GM can modify any of the rules as he or she sees fit (at least as long as your players agree to go along with those changes).
This is true, after all A high stealth modifier is hardly a game breaker.
But here's the rub- as a player, you shouldn't build a character on the basis that you can convince your DM to houserule something. If he does, great, if not, than that's fine too.
1. Animal companions don't seem to get the racial skill bonuses to skill checks real animals do. Is this on purpose? Should they get them? It's not a HUGE deal, but it really gimps an animal companion's already sad skills.
They don't. You can make up for this fairly quickly with an animal companions skill points though. many of the good skills are class skills for animal companions , so 1 rank in several skills like acrobatics or stealth gets you +4 to the skill.
If you want even more skills, you can commission a headband of intelligence with a skill on it and give it to your animal companion.
Q: Does an animal companion gain the normal animals racial modifiers. For example does an eagle animal companion still get its +8 racial modifier to perception?
A: (James Jacobs 1/3/09) As written, an animal companion gains ONLY the abilities that are listed in its animal companion stat block and the basic rules for animal companions. This does mean that an animal companion doesn't gain the various racial skill modifiers a normal animal of its kind gets; if the normal animal has bonus feats, the animal companion doesn't get them either. Animal companions are different than normal animals, after all, and are built using different rules. [Source]
2. QUADRUPEDS! All quadrupeds in the Monster Manual get a bonus versus trip attempts- do animal companions get this? Also, does being a quadruped affect carrying capacity?
Yes. That is a function of being a quadraped under the trip rules, its not tied to a species bonus or anything.
Trip
You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. If you do not have the Improved Trip feat, or a similar ability, initiating a trip provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
If your attack exceeds the target's CMD, the target is knocked prone. If your attack fails by 10 or more, you are knocked prone instead. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has. Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped.
Are snake animal companions immune to trips like all other snakes? Can you really trip a snake animal companion?!
Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped.
Q: Does an animal companion gain the normal animals racial modifiers. For example does an eagle animal companion still get its +8 racial modifier to perception?
A: (James Jacobs 1/3/09) As written, an animal companion gains ONLY the abilities that are listed in its animal companion stat block and the basic rules for animal companions. This does mean that an animal companion doesn't gain the various racial skill modifiers a normal animal of its kind gets; if the normal animal has bonus feats, the animal companion doesn't get them either. Animal companions are different than normal animals, after all, and are built using different rules. [Source]
Which is by far among the most stupid of things I've seen decided by Paizo, amongst a few others (the lack of instant death magic, the lack of XP costs for spells and magic items are two others I can think of.)
I'm an animal with natural born physiology. I become a magically bonded companion to someone and suddenly I lose all of that? What about my physique? Eagles are known for their extremely sharp sight, they are born with it like a dwarf is born more sturdy, elves more graceful, etc., so an eagle goes "blind" upon becoming a companion? I don't understand why they had to give a reason for a mistake instead of just fixing the mistake?
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I don't understand why they had to give a reason for a mistake instead of just fixing the mistake?
I suspect that it wasn't a mistake, but a choice.
I don't love the choice, but I understand that they wanted to squeeze each of the generic critter types down into some quick and easy templates for the druid to use, without adding another page to an already fat, fat book, so eagles don't gain abilities that an owl wouldn't gain, and vice-versa, because the druid doesn't have an individual entry for 'owl' or 'eagle,' it just has one for 'bird.'
Similarly, even if you think of your 'cat' as a cougar or panther or leopard or african desert cat or white-tufted spotted lynx, you get the 'sprint' ability of a cheetah, because it's a 'cat, small.'
The easy fix? Write 'em up as individual choices yourself. Want an actual *eagle* companion, and not a 'bird,' then write up an eagle, or an owl, or a 'really big vulture.' Dump a stat point here or there, if necessary, to balance out any improved utility that the options might add, and go for it.
Each Bestiary comes out with new options, and if we can have separate write-ups for allosaurus and tyrannosaurus companions, I'm sure that customized write-ups for owls and eagles are justifiable.
I reread the section in the Core Rulebook. Familiars retain their skills, feats, and other stats from when they were normal animals. I have memory issues.
If animal companions are different than normal, then knowledge nature should detect that. The DC should be rather high, possibly 20-25. Possibly the Beastmaster prestige class could have multiple unmodified Animal Friends.