Please adjust the Samurai / Fighter Feat level process


Samurai Discussion: Round 1


Browsing a lot of the playtest results, you see an awful lot of fighter 1/samurai X builds. Letting the Samurai pick out some fighter feats was a good idea but I think the concept of "making" a player dip another class was not a good plan.

Back when Wotc released the Tome of Battle, they had the Warblade class be able to pick fighter feats as if they were a fighter of -2 level. Please implement this, or just as a fighter straight up, as it tends to screw around with the mechanics of this class.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, just most classes work well within themselves and the Samurai comes out looking a little weird this way.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

I'm playing a fighter 1 / samurai 2 in our Serpent's Skull game. I've thought of several back story reasons that might explain this, but it does seem a little strange. I do understand were they are coming from ; by sacrificing a level of progress from samurai you gain the benefits of fighter only feats. Weapon Expertise gives other benefits, the ability to count as fighter levels if you want to delay your samurai progression, and lose your capstone is just another option of the class. Is the cost worth the reward? That depends on the player and I like that the question is there.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
I'm playing a fighter 1 / samurai 2 in our Serpent's Skull game. I've thought of several back story reasons that might explain this, but it does seem a little strange. I do understand were they are coming from ; by sacrificing a level of progress from samurai you gain the benefits of fighter only feats. Weapon Expertise gives other benefits, the ability to count as fighter levels if you want to delay your samurai progression, and lose your capstone is just another option of the class. Is the cost worth the reward? That depends on the player and I like that the question is there.

I think it is a misinterpretation of what the devs were putting across, just like how eldritch knight was clarified this will be too, you dont actually NEED levels of fighter for EK to get fighter feats, and you dont for Samurai either, the term 'stacks with levels of fighter' is a poor choice of wording, nothing else.

The purpose of weapon expertise is to allow the samurai to take fighter only feats in that specific weapon only, and get quick draw for that weapon only.

Scarab Sages

Agree with Pendagast.

Also note that Pathfinder discourages mulit-classing so this makes sense. Also 1 level dips are dumb and poor design. Hopefully paizo will clarify since some people want to not 'give away' fighter only feats...

Armor Training is the trademark fighter ability in Pathfinder.


Matthew Trent wrote:

Agree with Pendagast.

+1

I've always felt that class-specific feats were kind of arbitrary. If a wizard spends their feats on getting better with a weapon why the heck can't they pick up weapon specialization? It's probably a terrible choice in terms of optimizing, but I can't think of a single good reason to disallow it outright.

Grand Lodge

I just want it removed.

It makes the Samurai so much better than Cavilier, which is power creep, leap or whatever you want to call it.

It also de-values the fighter... so what they get weapon and armour boosts and a +2 vs fear save? Its also allows access to those fighter only feats, particulary at higher level that keep them in the groove to being competitive (not gonna get into the whole magic/vs non magic thing).

The Sammy should get equivilient to the Cavilier - and the cavilier was balanced so its abilities were equal to (but different from) the core classes.


Samurai is known for being a specialist in a certain weapon (normally katana but arguments can be made for naginata and yumi/daikyu)

The Devs are trying to get this across with a character class ability.
Cavaliers (the english knight) were not known as masters of a specific weapon but rather adept at all manner of weapons. They were far more known as horse masters than the japanese , most likely because there is just a heck of a lot more land to run around in in europe than in japan, as such the cav is alot better with mounts and charging.

Its a specific ability that only applies to one weapon, and the sammy doesn't get the oodles of feats to compete with the fighter, so his progression in it is going to be alot slower.

Grand Lodge

Pendagast wrote:
Its a specific ability that only applies to one weapon

Yep - so they have the choice of their signature weapon (Katana), Long Bow, Naginata and wakazashi.

The feat Weapon Spec only applies to one weapon as well... so its not a limiting factor. The weapons above give the Samurai a wide choice of weapon styles (heavy melee, polearm, light melee and Bow) so its no limitation at all.

Lets look at the feats that apply.
Critical Mastery (14th)
Disrupting Shot (6th)
Disruptive (6th)*
Gr. Weapon Focus (8th)
Penetrating Strike and Greater Penetrating(12th and 16th)
Shield focus (Gr.), Shield Spec and Gr. Shield Spec - Marking these as NA as I hope they dont get shields.
Spellbreaker (10th)*
Gr. Weapon Spec (12th)

Thats ALL the fighter specific feats. In the case of * these feats may only work with one of the above 4 weapons in their hands, but the rest? They naturally will be using one of their above 4 weapons... it wont be limiting them.

Its not as though fighters get a lot to make them special - these feats are part of that.

If you really feel that they can't make themselves masters of their chosen weapons with existing feats as is, then give them a bonus to hit/damage that scales like the fighters weapon choices for ONE specific weapon choice... by 10th level it would be +2/+2 = equal to gr. weapon focus and weapon specialisation...

But please, no access to the above feats that make fighters balance with the other classes.


Remember, Samurai only qualifies for fighter feats that affect a specific weapon like Weapon Spec. Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Greater/Penetrating Strike, Disrupting Shot, etc. don't qualify and are still Fighter only.

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