
Tribuchet |

Hello, I couldn't find anywhere in the rules that specifies the rate at which magic items can be sold. I am talking about the items adventurers find, rather than the ones they make....
Do you allow characters to sell at the full base price, or at a certain percentage?
And knowing in advance we will see a "yes" to both of these methods... do you know why do you do it that way? The reasoning is more interesting (and a pointer to a written core rule the most interesting of all.)

Raging Hobbit |

Hello, I couldn't find anywhere in the rules that specifies the rate at which magic items can be sold. I am talking about the items adventurers find, rather than the ones they make....
Do you allow characters to sell at the full base price, or at a certain percentage?
And knowing in advance we will see a "yes" to both of these methods... do you know why do you do it that way? The reasoning is more interesting (and a pointer to a written core rule the most interesting of all.)
The standard is half.
In general, a character can sell something for half its listed price, including weapons, armor, gear, and magic items. This also includes character-created items.
Trade goods are the exception to the half-price rule. A trade good, in this sense, is a valuable good that can be easily exchanged almost as if it were cash itself.

Tribuchet |

Tribuchet wrote:The standard is half.Hello, I couldn't find anywhere in the rules that specifies the rate at which magic items can be sold. I am talking about the items adventurers find, rather than the ones they make....
Do you allow characters to sell at the full base price, or at a certain percentage?
And knowing in advance we will see a "yes" to both of these methods... do you know why do you do it that way? The reasoning is more interesting (and a pointer to a written core rule the most interesting of all.)
I agree that is probably the standard -- but is that a convention, or is that a rule in the core? Just curious.

Oliver McShade |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Page 460 = PF = phb = Magic Item Descriptions = Price.
" This is the cost, in gold pieces, to purchase the item, if it is available for sale. Generally speaking, magic items can be sold by PCs for half this value. "
................
As DM, allow
Anywhere between 1/2 to full price. For most magic items. Depending on location, demand, and a lot on magic item function.
Arms & Armor usually for full price since anyone can use them, and there is great demand for them. Potion or Travel items also for full price.
Scrolls, wands, rods, staffs and odd wondrous items for 1/2 price.
Everything else, somewhere in between. Depending on luck.
.........
Unless they are famous AND stolen = Then only about 5-20% of normal Price.

Tribuchet |

Page 460 = PF = phb = Magic Item Descriptions = Price.
" This is the cost, in gold pieces, to purchase the item, if it is available for sale. Generally speaking, magic items can be sold by PCs for half this value. "
................
As DM, allowAnywhere between 1/2 to full price. For most magic items. Depending on location, demand, and a lot on magic item function.
Arms & Armor usually for full price since anyone can use them, and there is great demand for them. Potion or Travel items also for full price.
Scrolls, wands, rods, staffs and odd wondrous items for 1/2 price.
Everything else, somewhere in between. Depending on luck.
.........
Unless they are famous AND stolen = Then only about 5-20% of normal Price.
+1. When I am DMing, I do something similar, for the most part. Free market, baby!

Kevin Andrew Murphy Contributor |

If you incorporate 3.5 material, there was also a 1st level only feat in Dragon #315 and the Players Guide to Faerun called Mercantile Background that let you sell items at 75% of list price instead of the usual 50%, and also once a month let you buy an item you wanted at 75% of list price rather than 100%. Plus you also started the game with 300 extra GP.
I tend to not allow this feat myself, but look at it as the benchmark for how high or low a merchant will be willing to go when haggling or having a sale: Today only, all potions 5% off! Buy 10 or more, get 10% off! At these prices, they won't last!
It keeps every merchant from looking like franchise owners with draconian set prices.

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Hello, I couldn't find anywhere in the rules that specifies the rate at which magic items can be sold. I am talking about the items adventurers find, rather than the ones they make....
Do you allow characters to sell at the full base price, or at a certain percentage?
And knowing in advance we will see a "yes" to both of these methods... do you know why do you do it that way? The reasoning is more interesting (and a pointer to a written core rule the most interesting of all.)
For my games, I allow a PC that has the Profession: Merchant or Diplomacy skills to make a roll to see what he can get for the item in question. Players without the skills can still make a special Charisma check without any extra modifiers. Base price is 50% of market price listed. The DC is 15 for minor items, 25 for medium, and 35 for major, artifacts are not covered as unless it is part of an adventure, I never allow PC's to buy them. For every 5 points the check fails, -5% to the price the PC can sell for. Success 0-4 gives 50%, every 5 points gives +10% upto 110%
I see this as a fair way to simulate the ebb and flow of complex markets in a fluid and changing world. This also assumes a buyer/seller can even be found, which in most cases is DM fiat.

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If you incorporate 3.5 material, there was also a 1st level only feat in Dragon #315 and the Players Guide to Faerun called Mercantile Background that let you sell items at 75% of list price instead of the usual 50%, and also once a month let you buy an item you wanted at 75% of list price rather than 100%. Plus you also started the game with 300 extra GP.
I tend to not allow this feat myself, but look at it as the benchmark for how high or low a merchant will be willing to go when haggling or having a sale: Today only, all potions 5% off! Buy 10 or more, get 10% off! At these prices, they won't last!
It keeps every merchant from looking like franchise owners with draconian set prices.
Again of course that feat will run up against the glass ceiling of the localitiy's GP limit.

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I have a question in a similar vein.
I am running a campaign in my own world that was 3.5 D&D and we have recently converted to PFRPG. (something I have been exceedingly happy about!)
My world is a homebrew creation based upon a FR campaign I ran for 7 years. The short version is that players failed to defeat the evil menace at the end of this incredibly long story and the world was plunged into darkness and destruction for millennium upon millennium until the world itself did not resemble anything of any published setting even geographically. However I have used materials from different FR or Eberron products occasionally while changing their flavor or descriptions so that they better fit my world and as such I have run into an interesting problem with two of the characters.
The first character being a human wizard who grew up the son of a wealthy merchant family (which is a long story itself) and has the Mercantile Background feat which allows him to sell goods at 75% of their value instead of 50% and once per month buy something at 75% its value instead of 100%
and the second character is a gnomish technomancer (Artificer from ToS) who enjoys mixing technology and magic and crafting things. Now he possesses a class feature called Salvage (ToS pg 14) which in short allows him to spend a day deconstructing a magic item and gain a phantom reserve of gp value equal to its Base Cost (the magic cost to enchant which is 50% of the market price not counting the cost of the object itself) thus he could deconstruct an item and make it into any other magic item of the same value.
The trouble is this: if any character can sell any magic item at 50% of its value then salvage becomes worse than useless because the same aforementioned gnome could instead of wasting a day per item salvaging them sell them and gain as much money or more (a +1 magic longsword is worth 2,315 2000gp for magic {base cost 1k} 315 for the masterwork longsword and therefore could be salvaged for 1,00gp or sold for 1,157gp and 5sp) thus making it better for him to sell the item ignore the class feature and buy 1k worth of crafting components pocketing the nice 157.5gp profit.
Worse still is that the mercantile background feat really exaggerates the worthlessness of salvage by increasing the profits an extra 25%
Normally I would simply take away Salvage and replace it with something (even just a bonus feat) more worthwhile but this also bothers my sense of continuity and realism.
Any suggestions?

Defraeter |
I have a question in a similar vein.
I am running a campaign in my own world that was 3.5 D&D and we have recently converted to PFRPG. (something I have been exceedingly happy about!)
My world is a homebrew creation based upon a FR campaign I ran for 7 years. The short version is that players failed to defeat the evil menace at the end of this incredibly long story and the world was plunged into darkness and destruction for millennium upon millennium until the world itself did not resemble anything of any published setting even geographically. However I have used materials from different FR or Eberron products occasionally while changing their flavor or descriptions so that they better fit my world and as such I have run into an interesting problem with two of the characters.
The first character being a human wizard who grew up the son of a wealthy merchant family (which is a long story itself) and has the Mercantile Background feat which allows him to sell goods at 75% of their value instead of 50% and once per month buy something at 75% its value instead of 100%
and the second character is a gnomish technomancer (Artificer from ToS) who enjoys mixing technology and magic and crafting things. Now he possesses a class feature called Salvage (ToS pg 14) which in short allows him to spend a day deconstructing a magic item and gain a phantom reserve of gp value equal to its Base Cost (the magic cost to enchant which is 50% of the market price not counting the cost of the object itself) thus he could deconstruct an item and make it into any other magic item of the same value.
The trouble is this: if any character can sell any magic item at 50% of its value then salvage becomes worse than useless because the same aforementioned gnome could instead of wasting a day per item salvaging them sell them and gain as much money or more (a +1 magic longsword is worth 2,315 2000gp for magic {base cost 1k} 315 for the masterwork longsword and therefore could be salvaged for 1,00gp or sold for 1,157gp and...
A very interesting question of "rule".
1) feat Mercantile BackgroundAs DM, i am absolutely against! I don't allow any of my players to take it.
Because PFRPG/D&D is NOT build to be an economic game.
Think "gold" yours PC find in quest is to equip them, not to make "profit", that's in that way the game is intended.
If you allow this feat, it's easy to a crafter to do enormous profit and break the balance of the game.
Simulate economic is very very complicated and no rules cover this fact: if you try to do it, you will fastly construct a "Heath-Robinson machine" (UK) or "Rube Goldberg machine" (US). An unneccessarily complicated creation that functions poorly.
For instance, a friend of me tried in his campaign to "rule the economic": one of his players build Thieve's guild and he gives him an income. After several others guild build, they calculated that the PC will earn more than the realm in which the guilds set!!!!
When PC, at high levels, wear a fortune greater than most assets of the city they cross, you know the game isn't "realistic".
No problem however, it has never been its intention!
To prevent any problem, i have separated the Quest/adventure from the campaign/ inter-module time when they play political actions, social interactions, life of everyday, etc...
I manage the campaign part (opposed to the quest part) as an increase of their social status, gaining glory or influence, glorious title, etc... the roots of players's roleplay, similar to a "prestige system" or the separation you have between GP and Build Points in Kingmaker.
Players can invest their gold in part campaign, but very difficult to make the opposite.
Outside the skills profession/craft/perform, the players cannot make "profit" if they don't go in adventure.
Because the game and its balance are calculated like that.
If you allow a feat like that, you allow to modify the balance and so it's an open door to "abuse"...
2) class feature called Salvage
I don't know this feature (except how you explain it) but one question: when you "deconstruct" a magic item, are you forced to break the item???
I mind: if you deconstruct a longsword +1, it gives you on one side a phantom reserve of gp (1000gp) and on the other side the item now non-magical, so a longsword mwk.
So the same thing that if the item has been sold on the market.
This feature is VERY interesting indeed.
a) You don't need a marketplace
You are limited by the Purchase Limit of each city, and other DM's restrictions, and often, PCs may not have the opportunity to go to a great marketplace to sell theirs goods.
So no problem with this feature. And i think it would be possible to use it in cooperation's craft magic item.
b) you can "transfer the power"
An ex: PC1 "Yes. What a wonderful magic weapon!!! what a pity, it's a longsword and all my feats are for Battleaxe..."
PC2 "No problem! I salvage this item and put the magic on your prefered weapon!!!"
PC1 "Great!!!"
c) You remove that is not interesting
The rule to improve an object exists, so to enhance a mace +1 to a mace +2, flaming (PF 553, cost = cost of wanted item (mace +2 flaming) less the cost of existing item (mace +1)).
So what prevents to salvage only some parts of the magic? i.e do the opposite of the improve magic items, and salvage to reduce the magic parts that you don't want.
Ex: PC1 "Oh god! I find a full plate +4, Invulnerability, but i have no use of Invulnerability DR5/magic!"
PC2 "No problem! I just salvage the Invulnerability enchant and replace it by a Moderate Fortification."
PC1 "Cool!"
It could be "cool" too to change a spell on a staff.
d) with the feats Create Magic Arms & µArmor and Craft Construct, it's an easy deal to replace your golems (see Ultimate Magic)
When your golem has no more utility, you can salvage & replace it (or replace some of its enchant). Because i don't think it's easy to sell a golem...
Sure. I think it is more interesting with feats Create Magic Arms & µArmor and Craft Construct, but it gives more versatility to PC, that is always great!

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b) you can "transfer the power"
An ex: PC1 "Yes. What a wonderful magic weapon!!! what a pity, it's a longsword and all my feats are for Battleaxe..."
PC2 "No problem! I salvage this item and put the magic on your prefered weapon!!!"
PC1 "Great!!!"
I love the idea of partial deconstruction so that you could simply replace old or undesirable abilities saving time in your "enhancement enchanting" and will definitely use that idea.
To prevent any problem, i have separated the Quest/adventure from the campaign/ inter-module time when they play political actions, social interactions, life of everyday, etc...
I manage the campaign part (opposed to the quest part) as an increase of their social status, gaining glory or influence, glorious title, etc... the roots of players's roleplay, similar to a "prestige system" or the separation you have between GP and Build Points in Kingmaker.
I have heard a lot of people reference Kingmaker but I am sadly unfamiliar with it (again I only recently converted to PFRPG)
2) class feature called Salvage
I don't know this feature (except how you explain it) but one question: when you "deconstruct" a magic item, are you forced to break the item???
I mind: if you deconstruct a longsword +1, it gives you on one side a phantom reserve of gp (1000gp) and on the other side the item now non-magical, so a longsword mwk.
So the same thing that if the item has been sold on the market.
The exact wording of Salvage from Tome of Secrets pg 14 is as follows:
Salvage: At 5th level, an artificer gains the ability
to salvage the gold piece value from a magic item
and use those funds to create another magic item.
The artificer must spend a day with the item, and
he must also have the appropriate item creation
feat for the item he is salvaging.
After one day, the item is destroyed and the
artificer gains the gp value it took to create the
item. This value is cannot be spent as gold, it may
only be used in the creation of another magic item.
so while it does state the object is destroyed I think for game balance I am going to suspend that idea and instead consider the object a non-magical masterwork object except for the case of objects whose core item cost is not included in their market value (ex most wondrous magic items)
Thank you so much for your help in this and if you or anyone has any further insight or suggestions please keep them coming!