Alternate class features?

[Yescas]

Easy question, maybe I missed it somewhere. Can any of the archetypes presented take an alternate class feature from the APG?

Example: Let's say we have a Ninja who wants to take expert acrobat instead of poison use. Since this is an archetype, and poison use is used to replace trapfinding in the rogue, and expert acrobat also replaces trapfinding, can the swap be made according to rules?

[Stephen Radney-MacFarland]

Yescas wrote:

Easy question, maybe I missed it somewhere. Can any of the archetypes presented take an alternate class feature from the APG?

Example: Let's say we have a Ninja who wants to take expert acrobat instead of poison use. Since this is an archetype, and poison use is used to replace trapfinding in the rogue, and expert acrobat also replaces trapfinding, can the swap be made according to rules?

You know, the rules as written are silent or unsure about archetypes and how they interact with alternate classes.

For the playtest, use this rule of thumb.

1) If you are playing in the Pathfinder Society, assume no unless Mark and Hyrum tell you different.

2) If you are playing an at-home playtest, assume the answer is yes (as long as you GM is game). How viable are these options, do they seem fun to play or weird and cheesy? Those are all things I would like to know. The more concrete examples to back up your points the better.

[Name Violation]

Yescas wrote:

Easy question, maybe I missed it somewhere. Can any of the archetypes presented take an alternate class feature from the APG?

Example: Let's say we have a Ninja who wants to take expert acrobat instead of poison use. Since this is an archetype, and poison use is used to replace trapfinding in the rogue, and expert acrobat also replaces trapfinding, can the swap be made according to rules?

No. You can't trade an ability you don't get. A ninja doesn't get trapfinding.

Same way you can't use 2 archetypes that replace the same feature.

[reefwood]

Yescas wrote:

Easy question, maybe I missed it somewhere. Can any of the archetypes presented take an alternate class feature from the APG?

Example: Let's say we have a Ninja who wants to take expert acrobat instead of poison use. Since this is an archetype, and poison use is used to replace trapfinding in the rogue, and expert acrobat also replaces trapfinding, can the swap be made according to rules?

Ok, let me make sure I have this straight...

Ninja has the "poison use" class feature.

Rogue has the "trapfinding" class feature.

You want the Ninja to take the alternate "expert acrobat" class feature that replaces the Rogue's "trapfinding" class feature?

I don't think that class A can take alternate class features from class B. If a cleric had something that replaced Channel Energy, I don't think that a Paladin could take that same alternate class feature... let alone, then switch it AGAIN for a different alternate class feature that replaces Domains.

I'm not sure if this is an exact parallel example, but it would seem odd for a Paladin to receive an alternate class feature that replaces a Domain when the Paladin does not have access to Domains in the first place. And I don't think it would make any more sense for the reason to do this to be, "Well, they can both Channel Energy."

Of course, I didn't look at the rules to back this up, but while I know you can select multiple archetypes, it is clear that you can't select 2 archtypes that replace the same class feature, so I don't know why you would be any to replace a class feature 2 times (A to B to C).

EDIT: The book does say, "Each alternate class feature replaces a specific class feature from its parent class."

So, I don't think you can apply alternate class features to "cousin" classes. I wouldn't let a Barbarian replace his uncanny dodge with the a Rogue alternate class feature that replaces the Rogue's uncanny dodge.

[Yescas]

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

You know, the rules as written are silent or unsure about archetypes and how they interact with alternate classes.

For the playtest, use this rule of thumb.

1) If you are playing in the Pathfinder Society, assume no unless Mark and Hyrum tell you different.

2) If you are playing an at-home playtest, assume the answer is yes (as long as you GM is game). How viable are these options, do they seem fun to play or weird and cheesy? Those are all things I would like to know. The more concrete examples to back up your points the better.

Thanks for the answer, that is exactly what I thought. Now moving on to the character design phase.

[Yescas]

reefwood wrote:

I think you got lost somewhere.

My question is not wether or not a different class can take an alternate class feature from another class list. Like barb and rogue.

The question was to the archetypes presented in Ultimate Combat Playtest which are in essence, alternate class features applied to fighter (gunslinger), rogues (ninja) and chavaliers (samurai). They effectively replace the core classes if you take them, and as mentioned, they are as if you had taken levels in the original class for purpose of feats and effects.

A ninja is basically alternate class features applied to a rogue base class. It is a bunch of alternate class features that come in a complete package.

The example posted was for a ninja. Let us say I want something different, not just the ninja as presented. So for this example, I want an acrobatic ninja. Here are the changes

Poison use changes to expert acrobat (they both change the rogue's trapfinding)
No trace changes to second chance (they both change the rogue's trap sense)

[reefwood]

Yescas wrote:

reefwood wrote:

I think you got lost somewhere.

Okay, yeah... I thought Ninja was class.

As far as I know, you can't replace something twice. If the Rogue is the parent class, and there are archetypes A) Acrobat, B) Burglar, and C) Ninja. It would seem fine to take Acrobat and Ninja as long as the two archetypes don't replace any of the same class features. But it sounds like Acrobat and Ninja both replace trapfinding, so I would think it would have to be one or the other. That maybe the Ninja could take archetypes that don't replace trapfinding, if you can work backwards like that, but not any archetypes that do replace trapfinding.

But I'm just going off the APG, and if this is some new thing, then it may work differently.