If a PC wanted to play the monster how do you determine the level adjustment if it does not say in the Bestiary? On the reference document it states that monster as PCs is determine by the CR rating?
So if I am reading this correctly does that mean if I wanted to play a monster like: "Hound Archon" CR 4 (6D8 hit die) does that mean I would need to be level 5 in order to be this monster or level 10 since you would add the hit dice and the CR 4?
The reason I ask is because if you would select the hound archon as a cohort the PC would need to be minimum level 7 since the highest level your cohort can achieve is level 5 (7-2)? Can someone let me know how this would work? Thanks
If its HD is 6, then the first level of class is at 7. CR doesn't even make its way into the equation unless its cr 1/2 in which case you can make it a PC race without any penalties at all and it would have no HD, just class levels.
As far as your hound archon, depending on if he has class levels or not. It would be either be counted as level 6 or 7.
Morvik wrote: If its HD is 6, then the first level of class is at 7. CR doesn't even make its way into the equation unless its cr 1/2 in which case you can make it a PC race without any penalties at all and it would have no HD, just class levels.
As far as your hound archon, depending on if he has class levels or not. It would be either be counted as level 6 or 7.
Then why can you take the "Hound Archon" as a cohort at level 7?
Jeremiah Carde wrote: Then why can you take the "Hound Archon" as a cohort at level 7? Where are you seeing that you can? Unless a DM is house ruling you can't.
The rules for monsters as pcs is on page 314-315 of the bestiary, and spelled out pretty plainly. A monster with racial hd can be played as a PC, though it isnt recommended. The monsters CR determines the level at which you can play them, Cr4 = character level 4. From there on, advance them with normal class levels, not racial HD.
I could use some help making sense of this second paragraph:
Quote: If you are including a single monster character in a group of standard characters, make sure the group is of a level that is at least as high as the monster's CR. Treat the monster's CR as class levels when determining the monster PC's overall levels. For example, in a group of 6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2 levels of a core class, such as barbarian.
Note that in a mixed group, the value of racial Hit Dice and abilities diminish as a character gains levels. It is recommended that for every 3 levels gained by the group, the monster character should gain an extra level, received halfway between the 2nd and 3rd levels. Repeat this process a number of times equal to half the monster's CR, rounded down. Using the minotaur example, when the group is at a point between 6th and 7th level, the minotaur gains a level, and then again at 7th, making him a minotaur barbarian 4. This process repeats at 10th level, making him a minotaur barbarian 8 when the group reaches 10th level. From that point onward, he gains levels normally.
The numbers in the second paragraph example don't seem to add up to the rules presented at the start of the paragraph. It says that when a normal PC gains 3 levels, a monster PC gains 4 levels, and this extra level for the monster should come between the 2nd and 3rd PC levels.
Going off their example in the first paragraph, lets say there is Human Ftr6 and Minotaur Brb2. When the Human gains 3 levels to Ftr9, the Minotaur should gain 4 levels to Brb6, and it should proceed like this:
Starting level: Ftr6 and Brb2 (6 HD)
Ftr gain level #1: Ftr7 and Brb 3 (7 HD)
Ftr gain level #2: Ftr8 and Brb 4 (8 HD)
between #2 & #3: Ftr8 and Brb5 (9 HD)
Ftr gain level #3: Ftr9 and Brb6 (10 HD)
But the second paragraph example looks more like this:
Starting level: Ftr6 and Brb2 (6 HD)
between Start & #1: Ftr6 and Brb3 (7 HD)
Ftr gain level #1: Ftr7 and Brb 4 (8 HD)
Ftr gain level #2: Ftr8 and Brb 5 (9 HD)
between #2 & #3: Ftr8 and Brb6 (10 HD)
Ftr gain level #3: Ftr9 and Brb7 (11 HD)
Ftr gain level #4: Ftr10 and Brb8 (12 HD)
It looks like the rules provide a different progression than the one given in the example. Which one is correct? Or am I just misreading one of them?
Anyone know the answer to this?:
reefwood wrote: I could use some help making sense of this second paragraph:
Quote: If you are including a single monster character in a group of standard characters, make sure the group is of a level that is at least as high as the monster's CR. Treat the monster's CR as class levels when determining the monster PC's overall levels. For example, in a group of 6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2 levels of a core class, such as barbarian.
Note that in a mixed group, the value of racial Hit Dice and abilities diminish as a character gains levels. It is recommended that for every 3 levels gained by the group, the monster character should gain an extra level, received halfway between the 2nd and 3rd levels. Repeat this process a number of times equal to half the monster's CR, rounded down. Using the minotaur example, when the group is at a point between 6th and 7th level, the minotaur gains a level, and then again at 7th, making him a minotaur barbarian 4. This process repeats at 10th level, making him a minotaur barbarian 8 when the group reaches 10th level. From that point onward, he gains levels normally.
The numbers in the second paragraph example don't seem to add up to the rules presented at the start of the paragraph. It says that when a normal PC gains 3 levels, a monster PC gains 4 levels, and this extra level for the monster should come between the 2nd and 3rd PC levels.
Going off their example in the first paragraph, lets say there is Human Ftr6 and Minotaur Brb2. When the Human gains 3 levels to Ftr9, the Minotaur should gain 4 levels to Brb6, and it should proceed like this:
Starting level: Ftr6 and Brb2 (6 HD)
Ftr gain level #1: Ftr7 and Brb 3 (7 HD)
Ftr gain level #2: Ftr8 and Brb 4 (8 HD)
between #2 & #3: Ftr8 and Brb5 (9 HD)
Ftr gain level #3: Ftr9 and Brb6 (10 HD)
But the second paragraph example looks more like this:
Starting level: Ftr6 and Brb2 (6 HD)
between Start & #1: Ftr6 and Brb3 (7 HD)
Ftr gain level #1: Ftr7 and Brb 4 (8 HD)
Ftr gain level...
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Reefwood: Here is the correct progression for a minotaur. I have highlighted the areas where the minotaur gains a bonus level.
.
.
.
Minotaur HD/Class; Standard PC Class Levels
6/0; 4
6/1; 5
6/2; 6
6/4; 7
6/5; 8
6/6; 9
6/8; 10
6/9; 11
6/10; 12
6/11; 13
6/12; 14
6/13; 15
6/14; 16
6/15; 17
6/16; 18
6/17; 19
6/18; 20
Hopefully that answers your question.
Jeremiah Carde: There have been plenty of other threads about monsters. Here is all you would need to know about playing a minotaur in Pathfinder. Look at it closely and you should be able to get the idea of how it's done, and from there, can make other kinds of monster PCs as well (such as your hound archon).
Some monsters with CR<HD are rather "good deals" for PCs. The Hound Archon is a steal, especially considering its Greater Teleport at will, so don't be shocked if most GMs won't allow it.
Jeremiah Carde wrote: Morvik wrote: If its HD is 6, then the first level of class is at 7. CR doesn't even make its way into the equation unless its cr 1/2 in which case you can make it a PC race without any penalties at all and it would have no HD, just class levels.
As far as your hound archon, depending on if he has class levels or not. It would be either be counted as level 6 or 7.
Then why can you take the "Hound Archon" as a cohort at level 7? Cohorts follow entirely different rules from the "Monsters as PCs" rules. You can get a Hound Archon as a cohort whenever you would normally be able to get a 7th level Cohort (Table), which means a leadership score of 10 and you are at least 9th level (Feat). Thereafter, the archon advances as a cohort advances - by earning a fraction of your experience, and gaining class levels normally. The monster's CR doesn't matter (except for dragons), and they don't get any "bonus" levels to catch them up.
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