Venture-Lieutenant, Canada—Manitoba
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Running the updated version of Mists for the first time tonight... any comments on the changes to the mod?
On the surface...
Aura of incombustibility:
In Area 6, the Bathrooms:
A small viper ate an entire human since this morning and is still able to move? Really? I assume this was a play-balance thing to account for the tougher Da'Tunga/Tik Taan fight, but it strains credulity even farther than the original "medium snake ate a human" version.
I'll probably rule that the snake just ate the part of the body that carries the item in question.
Looking forward to others' feedback - this was my favorite Season 0 mod, and I'm sure I'll run it many more times!
In Area 6, the Bathrooms:
** spoiler omitted **I'll probably rule that the snake just ate the part of the body that carries the item in question.
|
I just finished reading the update to prep for my session tomorrow and my feelings are a tad mixed. The module still has the same great general feel, but some of the changes are a tad disappointing.
Since this thread is in the GM section and has the spoiler tag I'm not spoilerizing my post. You've been warned.
The changes to the Tiki Taan make them much easier. Their hardness in the original was their equalizer; it made wizards fear them and fighters have to work to kill them. Now they're just easy fodder to whomever hits their little wooden faces first. At first I was excited to see they had regeneration, as it would have made them as fearsome as the originals, until I realize that they couldn't even regenerate since there is no open ground. Even a diorama in the area with real dirt they could retreat to would have been a nice addition. Worst off, they really decreased the difficulty even more when they not only cut the ape HP by nearly half, but they dropped the number of idols from three to one at sub-tier 1-2. For the climactic battle, it's a little disappointing now (was EL 5, now CR 3).
I did like changes to the Vargouile's tactics. They were fearsome to begin with, but it's not often you see a low-level fight that really focuses on ranged tactics. I can't complain at all about the update to this encounter.
I guess I'm a little confused over the reasoning for the changes of the medium constrictor into a tiny viper. The tiny viper incurs an AOO whenever it attacks, making it a far less fearsome opponent, and the flavor of the snake eating the guard was far more entertaining than him being crammed in the toilet. Sure the change still will get a few snickers and statements of "eew", but I admit a certain like of the original encounter.
The module is still fun and written like one of the best out there, but at sub-tier 1-2 all but two of the fights has been made significantly easier (one was made a hair harder, and another was kept the same). I know Mists was a favorite first module due to its fun environment and not-terribly-difficult play, so I guess out of nostalgia more than anything I wish it hadn't changed so significantly.
Director of Brand Strategy
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Since the beginning of season zero, we established several guidelines for distribution of encounter CR difficulties, and also set a maximum CR for each subtier.
Part of the conversion process is bringing scenarios from the early days in line with these new design parameters. The goal is, of course, to do so without significantly altering the feel of a given adventure, but a party of level 1 PCs shouldn't be facing a CR 5 encounter.
That said, when you run the adventure, you can alter the flavor of any of the encounters to better emulate the thematic elements that changed as a result of the mechanical changes if you think it'll make a better play experience for your players.
|
|
Since the beginning of season zero, we established several guidelines for distribution of encounter CR difficulties, and also set a maximum CR for each subtier.
Part of the conversion process is bringing scenarios from the early days in line with these new design parameters. The goal is, of course, to do so without significantly altering the feel of a given adventure, but a party of level 1 PCs shouldn't be facing a CR 5 encounter.
That said, when you run the adventure, you can alter the flavor of any of the encounters to better emulate the thematic elements that changed as a result of the mechanical changes if you think it'll make a better play experience for your players.
I understand Mark. One of the concerns that I and other GMs I've talked to have is that there seems to be this ongoing theme that the "climax" encounter is never as dramatic as the lead-in encounter. I know this has been mentioned in other threads (I'm specifically thinking about some of the issues GMs have had with memorable bad-guys in the climax). I think the biggest surprise was how much the climax was taken down. I know of other season 1/2 climaxes (we've discussed one before) that were outright nasty to the point of near unfairness. The original encounter in this module was nowhere near as tough as those. Sure it was longer than average due to the creature hardness but it certainly wasn't a hard fight. Now, I'm worried that it will just be a complete blowout, which is a bit of a disappointment when the other fights are as memorable as they are.
Again, it's still a superb module, the flavor is still all there, which is part of the reason I like the module as much as I do, I'm just a hair worried about it being one of those three strikes, bad guys are dead climaxes.
|
|
I just played the PFS version of Mists last night at subtier 1-2 with 4 very underpowered level 1 PCs. I found the following:
1) The undead encounter was hardly changed, but it's still a good encounter, especially with the fog.
2) Although I'm glad that the snake didn't eat Sheg (it made no sense in terms of realism), I wish Paizo kept the constrictor snake (in subtier 1-2).
3) Subtier 4-5: It looks like Da'Tunga was properly buffed and will provide a suitable challenge. Especially since there are 3 Tik Taan idols who can cast Cause Fear for 3 rounds in a row (which is the only reason the encounter is challenging). This should lead to a near TPK with my APL 3 group (if they play stupidly), which is the desired challenge level imo.
4) Subtier 1-2: The Da'Tunga encounter in the PFS version is now a huge disappointment. Previously, Da'Tunga had 30 hp and there were three idols. Now Da'Tunga has only 19 hp and there's only one idol (with no DR). If you destroy either enemy, the encounter is over.
What was previously an interesting challenge is now a joke. My (underpowered) level 1 group took out Da'Tunga in 1 round. Da'Tunga missed and didn't do any damage. The idol (when they spotted it the next round), was also killed in 1 round. Super disappointing! Especially compared to the original.
Mark said that encounters are built around certain encounter levels, but clearly the CR for idols and apes are not accurate imo, just like the CR for earth elementals doesn't properly describe their power.
Imo at subtier 1-2, Da'Tunga should be an 'advanced' ape (+1 CR) and there should still be 3 idols with DR, with useful level 0 spells (either Daze, Acid Splash, or Ray of Frost).
So basically because of the PFS changes to the last encounter, I'm not a fan of Mists of Mwangi anymore and I'm revising my review. The initial version was much better. Last night's scenario just felt too fast, too simple and too easy.
Also, this scenario could easily be finished in 30 minutes. They might miss 1/3 of the gold doing so, but it can be done. Super short scenario.
The changes to the Tiki Taan make them much easier. Their hardness in the original was their equalizer; it made wizards fear them and fighters have to work to kill them.
When I played it, we didn't have a party fighter (the best we had was a monk or a bard or something) so that encounter was just tedious with two groups plinking away slo-o-o-o-owly at each other.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
|
So basically because of the PFS changes to the last encounter, I'm not a fan of Mists of Mwangi anymore and I'm revising my review. The initial version was much better. Last night's scenario just felt too fast, too simple and too easy.
I agree entirely regarding Da'Tunga. After the build up of lore, and all the well thought out encounters ...
When a gunslinger or barbarian can one shot the BBEG, it brings down the overall dread of a scenario like this. And if the final threat is a joke, then the entire scenario becomes a joke, which is not how I want Mists to be remembered.
That said, when you run the adventure, you can alter the flavor of any of the encounters to better emulate the thematic elements that changed as a result of the mechanical changes if you think it'll make a better play experience for your players.
Good to know. Very good to know. I may run Mists again, given this -- but only if the party is without a heavy lowbie hitter.
|
|
My home group is APL 3 (4 level 3s) now and decided to play up to subtier 4-5. We didn't have a healer, just a wand of infernal healing between encounters.
I thought the scenario played well at APL 3, but I was surprised it never felt dangerous. The last encounter didn't come close to TPKing them, but they made their fear saves. Da'Tunga had trouble hitting the strongest fighter, so he wasn't very effective. Still, it wasn't a short fight and I think the fight could have swung either way if they didn't make their Will saves, they just got lucky.
