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So I need solid references in PF only material for this.
Do I need to actually have spells memorized to create potions and scrolls?
Can I make them as long as the spells are on my list and add 5 to the DC of the Spellcraft (or relevant skill) check?
Specifically. Can I, as a level 1 alchemist, create a Bull Str potion? I cannot have the formula as it is a level 2 formula but it is on my list.
Take a look at the item creation rules here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Creating-Potions
For most magical items, your class just needs to have the spell on his spell list (if you happen to not know the spell, the DC to create the item increases by +5). However, for Scrolls and Potions you need to actually know the spell and have it prepared. The spell is used when you create the scroll/potion.
So, you need get a few levels and add Bull's Strength to your list in order to create a Bull's Strength potion. You can't make them at level 1.
Yes, No, No.
Potions are use activated not spell trigger or spell completion. Oilhorse can make it without knowing it.
There are two key rule words here spell-trigger and spell-completion, neither of these types of items can be crafted without actually having the spell cast from some source (there is debate as to limits on the source).
Scrolls are Spell-Completion items, the "spell" must be cast. You may not take the +5 DC and skip it.
Potions are Use-Activated, you may add +5 to the DC.
*Edit* Hope you like a DC 14 spell craft check (5 + min cast-level 4 + 5 missing). Likely what? Slight better the 50/50 chance of making it, with a chance of ending with a cursed potion.
There is a problem however:
From Magic Item Descriptions (Caster Level): For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level).
Since you can't set the caster level higher than your own caster level but must still set it high enough for the spell you can't craft the item if your caster level is below what is needed for the potion (in this case caster level 4).
I do though step back from the idea that you must know the spell and can't simply +5 the need for the spell.
Despite what the rules say?
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
You quote a general rule -- I quote a specific rule for potions, scrolls and wands.
We are talking about potions specifically...
I think the specific rule trumps the general one.
Where is your specific rule?(do not read with a sarcastic tone)
Ah, missed that...but that would counter the entire part I quoted
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level).
So, what is correct?
It's funny that you ignored the first line of what you quote --
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level.
Which comes directly before the line you highlight:
For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level).
So it's not a matter of "who's right" -- but missing part of the text before the part you are fixating on.
I don't intend for this to be mean -- I'm a technical speaker and doing such for the sake of clarity, not rudeness.
Let me rephrase, that entire paragraph seems to counter what I originally posted:
"Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites."
So which is right the paragraph above, or below:
"For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level)."
EDIT: I didn't ignore that line, that was already confirmed.
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So, what is correct?
They are BOTH correct, the first applies to potions, scrolls, and wands, the "For other magic items..." refers to anything not a potions, scrolls, or wands (Wondrous items, shields, armor, rods...)
Strangely wands are listed there but staves are not. I guess you can craft staves at CL 20 level even if you are a first level caster. Be one hell of a lucky spellcraft roll.
The entire paragraph says you must have a caster level equal to the item to craft it, which goes against the part about being able to add +5 to the DC to ignore it. The first sentence applies to potions, scrolls and wands. The second one applies to everything else.
The primary problem with the crafting rules is that they are scattered all over the chapter, and when people try to read them in order of precedence it becomes a circler mess. You have to read them all and keep them all in mind, and in context.
I apologize, I did have in the back of my mind that OP would not be able to craft the potion without meeting the caster level 4 requirement.
Think of it this way, the +5 DC is specifically about the Requirements of the item.
Take Belt of Giant Strength, which is listed as CL 8.
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, bull's strength; Cost 2,000 gp (+2), 8,000 gp (+4), 18,000 gp (+6)
Note that Caster Level is not a "Requirement" however. For the Belt the creator(a Wizard) could lower the CL to 3, which is the minimum to cast Bull Strength. If the creator did not have Bull Strength prepared that day or didn't have it in his spell book, he could take a +5 to the DC and ignore the actual need to cast Bull Strength. This does not remove the minimum caster level.
For a potion of Bull Strength its Requirements line should read:
Requirements Craft Potion, bull's strength; Cost 300 (Cleric, Druid, Wizard). 400 (Sorcerer, Alchemist), etc.
The CL of a Bull Strength potion would typically range from 3 to 4 depending on he class. This variance in caster level is partly why minimum Caster Level is not a listed Requirement in the majority of items. However keep all the rules in mind, you must still meet the minimum caster level need to actually cast the spells that go into making the item; whether or not you actually cast them (or even know them) during the creation process.
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In short the +5 DC for missing Requirements has nothing to do with meeting Minimum Caster Level to make a item. I can make a Belt of Giant Strength that is CL 4 as a Sorcerer, even if I never added Bull's Strength to my Spells Known. CL 4 is the minimum CL for a Sorc casting a 2nd level spell.
OilHorse alchemist could make a Potion of Bull's Strength, even if he never puts that formula into his formula book. He must still have at least a Caster Level of 4.
Sorry OilHorse, my mistake, no bull's strength potion crafting at your level.
I see, I guess that makes sense.