Random Eidolon Questions


Rules Questions


I see that in addition to the ability to respec evolutions when the summoner gains a level, the 4th-level spell Transmogrify lets you do it at will (where "at will" means a one-hour casting time and expensive materials). What do you think would be an appropriate level of spell to change the eidolon's basic form, going from (say) biped to quadruped?

Alternately, would a mid-to-high-level feat letting the eidolon switch between two preset evolution and/or base-form sets be too abusive?

If the summoner has used Aspect to divert evolutions to himself, does he keep these evolutions when the eidolon is not summoned?

Can an eidolon benefit from both the Improved Damage evolution and the Improved Natural Attack feat, increasing its damage die by two steps?


A) Nothing in the base rules allow you to change a base form. If, however, you're house ruling it as a spell, I'd make it a 6th level spell (50% higher) and quadruple the cost.

B) I did something similar to this for house ruling. See the final result on Pathfinder DB.

C) As far as I read it, yes, the summoner keeps all the evolutions he diverted to himself.

D) I believe James or Jason one chimed in on this and said no, the two are mutually exclusive, but I could be mistaken.


D) Well RAW it ought to work since they are untyped bonuses from different sources (one's an evolution and other's a feat). Ruling otherwise sets a poor precedent of class features not stacking with feats independent of what type they are.


erik542 wrote:
D) Well RAW it ought to work since they are untyped bonuses from different sources (one's an evolution and other's a feat). Ruling otherwise sets a poor precedent of class features not stacking with feats independent of what type they are.

A precedent already established by the monk however since you can't take improved natural attack for a monk's unarmed strike.


Abraham spalding wrote:
erik542 wrote:
D) Well RAW it ought to work since they are untyped bonuses from different sources (one's an evolution and other's a feat). Ruling otherwise sets a poor precedent of class features not stacking with feats independent of what type they are.
A precedent already established by the monk however since you can't take improved natural attack for a monk's unarmed strike.

That's because a monk's unarmed strike is not a natural attack. The monk having improved unarmed does not make the monk's unarmed attacks natural attacks which improved natural attack specifically increase damage of natural attacks.

edit: comprehensibility


erik542 wrote:

That's because a monk's unarmed strike is not a natural attack. The monk having improved unarmed does not make the monk's unarmed attacks natural attacks which improved natural attack specifically increase damage of natural attacks.

edit: comprehensibility

Except this:

Rules wrote:
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

With the huge exception of improved natural attack anything that improves a natural attack can improve a monk's unarmed strike which specifically states it is treated as a natural weapon for the purposes of effects that enhance or improve a natural weapon -- which improved natural attack does.

It's one huge caveat to carve out considering it is about the only means of improving a natural attack that cannot already be used to improve an unarmed strike.

However I'm going to bow out on the issue now as it's not the topic at hand -- and the fact this has been gone around a million times already and doesn't really need addressed again.

Simply saying "It's a precedent already in place with pathfinder."


Abraham spalding wrote:
erik542 wrote:

That's because a monk's unarmed strike is not a natural attack. The monk having improved unarmed does not make the monk's unarmed attacks natural attacks which improved natural attack specifically increase damage of natural attacks.

edit: comprehensibility

Except this:

Rules wrote:
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

With the huge exception of improved natural attack anything that improves a natural attack can improve a monk's unarmed strike which specifically states it is treated as a natural weapon for the purposes of effects that enhance or improve a natural weapon -- which improved natural attack does.

It's one huge caveat to carve out considering it is about the only means of improving a natural attack that cannot already be used to improve an unarmed strike.

However I'm going to bow out on the issue now as it's not the topic at hand -- and the fact this has been gone around a million times already and doesn't really need addressed again.

Simply saying "It's a precedent already in place with pathfinder."

Alright admitting the monk exception (which I'm going to house rule the other way because it's RAW and makes sense). The errata is that improved natural attack cannot be applied to unarmed strikes (monks or otherwise). Now the eidolon taking the feat is not applied the feat to unarmed strikes therefore the feat is applicable to the eidolon's natural attacks. As stated in my above posts the INA feat and INA evolution are indeed two distinct sources from any point of view which means that since they are untyped bonuses (which may be read as "damage die step +1" if you want to homogenize wordings) so they stack.


I have been thinking about the Summoner and his Eidolon base forms. I know in the playtest it said "once the base form is chosen, it cannot be changed". This is all fine and good but I feel this limits the summoner too much concerning his eidolon.

I present this alternative thought for dissemination. :)

Presently the summoner has to spend 1 minute to summon his eidolon. If his eidolon dies, he cannot summon him again until the next day. Alternately, If he dismisses his eidolon, he can resummon him by spending 1 minute in the summoning ritual.

Presently, summoners are restricted to one base form. I propose as a house rule or even a change in the rules that a summoner can summon his eidolon in any of the forms he desires. There are many ways that a summoner can't resummon an eidolon i.e... eidolon dying, summoner running out of Summoning ability etc..

this would give a summoner a lot more versatility while keeping them restricted and not OP. My example below:

Start of the day, the summoner knows he will be doing some traveling so he summons his eidolon in Quadraped with Mount evolution. Later in the day he and his team are going into a cave (dungeon) so he dismisses his eidolon and resummons him in Biped or Serpentine form.

I just feel that this would make it more awesome. And won't make the summoner op.. in the case of evolutions, the summoner has to choose which form to get points or even split evolution points between the forms.

Shoga

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