Hello all,
For a friend, I recently made a list of the animals she could change her druid into. There are things that aren't available, and I don't know why. Do you?
- "regular animal abilities" like Sprint (Cheetah), Ink cloud (Octopus, Squid), Electricity and Resist Electricity (Eel), Disease (Dire Rat), Hold breath (Dolphin), Rage, etc.
- physically related abilities, like skin thickness, are completely missing (nowhere it is said that you gain the creature's natural AC)
- "normal small animal shapes" like all those tiny critters (writing this, I just remembered that there is actually a list of Familiar creatures I haven't thought of)
- "different animal sizes" like a young tiger for a level 4 druid (because they can't access regularly Large tigers until level 6) - but Young is a template, see below
- "normal animal shapes" there are animal shapes that don't appear in the bestiary. All that's said is that to obtain the stat for the animal, apply a template to another. But Magic/Polymorph rules forbid using a template. Does that mean that I can't change into, say, a polar bear? Or a velociraptor?
After writing this, I came upon this post and, while I agree that limiting access to unbalancing shapes is necessary, allowing access to those few "simple" templates should have been in the rules. Alas, it doesn't seem so.
Anyways, here's another question: using wildshape, your main gain is the creature's speed and its attacks. Should I use the listed values for damage, or can I only look up that table in the monster rules?
I dont know why either.
Ultimately though, you aren't 100% turning into that creature.
You are gaining a slightly different stat array, as it states in Beast Shape. You dont gain the creatures natural AC, the same as you dont gain its hit points, or INT & WIS. You gain the stat modifiers as dictated in the spell description - and whatever natural armour the spell grants (ie the +4 NA for LARGE ANIMAL) Your speed is that of the spell, not of the creature.
You do gain some of the resists etc as clearly stated here:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html#polymorph
Bears and Velociraptors ARE both in the Bestiary, so are fine.
You gain the speed dictated by the BeastShape spell... but the attacks are per the animal type (says so in Polymorph linked above)
- physically related abilities, like skin thickness, are completely missing (nowhere it is said that you gain the creature's natural AC)
Nature AC bonuses are included in wild shape, but they are based on beast shape, not the animal itself.
- "different animal sizes" like a young tiger for a level 4 druid (because they can't access regularly Large tigers until level 6) - but Young is a template, see below
Templates aren't relevant. Wild shape into animals is based on beast shape. If a level 4 druid wants to wild shape into a young tiger, allow it. Mechanically, it still has the effects of beast shape.
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You do not gain resistances until beastshape 4. That polymorph link is a blanket list covering all polymorph spells at all levels. You must refer to the spell description to see which you gain. you gain the base land speed from the statblock, but any other modes of movement are limited in the spell description.
I dont know why either.
You do gain some of the resists etc as clearly stated here:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html#polymorphYou gain the speed dictated by the BeastShape spell... but the attacks are per the animal type (says so in Polymorph linked above)
Hello all,
For a friend, I recently made a list of the animals she could change her druid into. There are things that aren't available, and I don't know why. Do you?
- "regular animal abilities" like Sprint (Cheetah), Ink cloud (Octopus, Squid), Electricity and Resist Electricity (Eel), Disease (Dire Rat), Hold breath (Dolphin), Rage, etc.
- physically related abilities, like skin thickness, are completely missing (nowhere it is said that you gain the creature's natural AC)
- "normal small animal shapes" like all those tiny critters (writing this, I just remembered that there is actually a list of Familiar creatures I haven't thought of)
- "different animal sizes" like a young tiger for a level 4 druid (because they can't access regularly Large tigers until level 6) - but Young is a template, see below
- "normal animal shapes" there are animal shapes that don't appear in the bestiary. All that's said is that to obtain the stat for the animal, apply a template to another. But Magic/Polymorph rules forbid using a template. Does that mean that I can't change into, say, a polar bear? Or a velociraptor?After writing this, I came upon this post and, while I agree that limiting access to unbalancing shapes is necessary, allowing access to those few "simple" templates should have been in the rules. Alas, it doesn't seem so.
Anyways, here's another question: using wildshape, your main gain is the creature's speed and its attacks. Should I use the listed values for damage, or can I only look up that table in the monster rules?
I got in a whole diatribe about this concerning animal shamans. The reply I got, from at least Jacob(s? I forget), was "you should talk to your DM about adjudicating it." That doesn't wholly apply here except to the templates, but since you are the DM, you get to adjudicate it. And since it makes no sense NOT to allow it do to the COMPLETE OVERHAUL of how these spells work, you might as well. I frankly think they should edit their polymorph spells to allow certain templates within "X Shape" but they won't so whatever.
You do not gain resistances until beastshape 4.
In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead.
Looks kinda like you do, just at IV you apply those instead.
One specific note: hold breath is not needed because when you wild shape into a dolphin, you can breathe underwater. I know it's weird, but that's the rule.
Wildshape does not grant Beast Shape 4 (Magical beasts)
Wildshape only goes up to Beast Shape 3 (at 8th level), and even then only as animal (not magical beasts). So you do not even get small magical beast or Medium magical beast entries, from Beast Shape 3. Any beast shape entry will let you do anything as listed is a lesser entery, so beast shape 3 will let you take ability or entry for beast shape 1 for example.
Chart
4th level = Beast Shape 1
6th level = Beast shape 2, Elemental body 1
8th level = Beast shape 3 (animal only), Elemental body 2, plant shape 1
10t level = Elemental body 3, plant shape 2
12th level = Elemental body 4, plant shape 3
13th level = In natural humanoid form = Alter Self spell at Will.
Beast Shape 3 grants = If the form you take has any of these ability, or greater.
Burrow 30
Climb 90
fly 90 (good maneuverability aka +4 to fly)
Swim 90 (Any swim speed automatically gives Breath Underwater, even if that animal normal can not breath underwater itself... official ruling for now )
blindsence 30
Darkvision 60
Low-Light vision
Scent
constrict
ferocity
grab
jet
poison
pounce
rake
trample
trip
web
PS = Wildshape does not change your type at any time, so you are considered Humanoid type vs spells. So charm animal does not work on a Druid wildshaped as a bear, although Charm Person would work on the druid wildshpaed as a bear.
PS 2 = While wildshaped, spell that change your shape or size, will not effect the druid unless he choose to let them. Allowing them to effect him, dispels the wildshape ability.
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PS 2 what? No :/
As per page 51 CRB under wild shape:
"Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action"
As per pg 212 CRB under polymorph:
"If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
If you are hit by a polymorph spell, you can allow it to take the place of your current polymorph or not as you like.
But spells like enlarge and reduce are transmutation effects that are not polymorph effects. If someone hits you with one when you're in bear form, you don't get the option to take it. The spell just doesn't work, and is wasted.
Ya forgot about Enlarge and reduce spells, as they are not Polymorph spells. Was mainly thinking about Polymorph spells at the time.
Was just referring to Polymorph spells, as polymorph spells can change your shape or size when they effect you.
(for every rule, there is an exception, for every exception there is a rule)
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Again, it says a blanket statement,"all polymorph granting a number of abilities". Beastshape 1-3 grant you 0 resistance as they are listed, so whatever the shape grants, you gain the lesser, which is 0. Movement types like Fly are listed at reduced speed and senses like darkvision are listed at reduced distances in some cases. That is what they are referring to.
Elemental body on the other hand grants resistances of certain values, which you then take as listed.
That blanket description covers Dragon form, Elemental Body, Beastshape, Plant Shape. The statements are covering ALL of these, but applies only as the spell description states.
You do not gain resistances until beastshape 4.In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead.
Looks kinda like you do, just at IV you apply those instead.
The only resist i know of for druids is Elemental Body = Fire.
Give Resist 20 fire, but vulnerability to cold (+50% more damage).
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Worst part is since you go not get that type, you still have some problem.
Earth elemental can breath while earth glide, but you can not see.
Water elemental does not mention any kind of cold resistance, so dive to deep and you stuffer cold and pressure damage.
Air elemental also does not list can kind of cold resistance, so fly to high, and you stuffer cold and pressure damage.
On the up side, Endure Endure elements last 24 hours, so that should provide you with some cold/heat protect from mundane cold & pressure.
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One other thing to remember, While a natural earth elemental does not breath..... A druid wildshape into a earth elemental does breath, eat, sleep, as his normal type would.
Question: What pressure damage would you suffer from flying high? And I'm pretty sure the cold damage from that is DM fiat as well.
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The only real rule is the altitude sickness, which at the highest does ability damage to all ability scores. Those with dump stats beware!
PRD:
High Peak (more than 15,000 feet): The highest mountains exceed 15,000 feet in height. At these elevations, creatures are subject to both high altitude fatigue (as described above) and altitude sickness, whether or not they're acclimated to high altitudes. Altitude sickness represents long-term oxygen deprivation, and affects mental and physical ability scores. After each 6-hour period a character spends at an altitude of over 15,000 feet, he must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1 point of damage to all ability scores. Creatures acclimated to high altitude receive a +4 competence bonus on their saving throws to resist high altitude effects and altitude sickness, but eventually even seasoned mountaineers must abandon these dangerous elevations.