| FiddlersGreen |
Twilight knife seems to summon a force effect that attacks when you attack. Since it summons a magical effect, however, could you use multiple castings to get, say, 4 daggers attacking alongside you? After all, repeated castings of a spell are supposed to be redundant because overlapping spell effects do not stack. But this appears to be an instance where the spell effects do not overlap since each casting creates a seperate dagger.
| FiddlersGreen |
Nothing seems to prevent it. Note that unless you cast all of them as quickened spells and used your standard actions to make other attacks, this would take 4 rounds in which none of the knives would do anything - unless you can get a hex that counts as an attack down to a swift action somehow?
It would be more of a pre-buff, and certainly not something to pull out in every fight, if only due to the intensive spell-slot requirements. Quickened touch attacks or rays might also allow you to get into the fray a little earlier. The picture of several force daggers floating around your scimitar-brandishing eldritch knight and attacking alongside him is pretty sweet though. And maybe a mage's sword or two for good measure.
| Blueluck |
I don't think it's correct under RAW, but I would allow a player to cast [ulr=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/twilight-knife]Twilight Knife[/url] "on" her familiar via Share Spells. That would allow the Wizard, Witch, or Sorcerer to cast Twilight Knife as a standard action and the familiar to take an attack action.
| Oliver McShade |
For the time being enjoy it while you can :)
Next ed i expect this spell to get a re-write, or correction. As no other spell works the way this spell currently works.
.......
Nice spell, at 20th level, cast 10 times while invisible, and spend the next 10 rounds attacking creatures. If the target is denied a Dexterity bonus to AC or the knife flanks the target, you can then do 5d6+1d4 damage x 10 attacks per round for the next 10 rounds.
The Shredder build :)
| Blueluck |
I don't think it's correct under RAW, but I would allow a player to cast Twilight Knife "on" her familiar via Share Spells. That would allow the Wizard, Witch, or Sorcerer to cast Twilight Knife as a standard action and the familiar to take an attack action.
| FiddlersGreen |
For the time being enjoy it while you can :)
Next ed i expect this spell to get a re-write, or correction. As no other spell works the way this spell currently works.
.......
Nice spell, at 20th level, cast 10 times while invisible, and spend the next 10 rounds attacking creatures. If the target is denied a Dexterity bonus to AC or the knife flanks the target, you can then do 5d6+1d4 damage x 10 attacks per round for the next 10 rounds.
The Shredder build :)
The damage is nice, but circumstancial, with an immense amount of setup time and a rather low chance to hit for that level. Unless you use AC debuffs liberally.
I don't think it's correct under RAW, but I would allow a player to cast Twilight Knife "on" her familiar via Share Spells. That would allow the Wizard, Witch, or Sorcerer to cast Twilight Knife as a standard action and the familiar to take an attack action.
Would you care to explain why you don't think it's correct under RAW?
From my reading, it seems to resemble the spell mage sword in operation, except that rather than automatic control, you direct its attacks through your own attacks. In that sense, it's like a summon of sorts. Usually spells don't "stack" in the sense that they give overlappig benefits. But in this case, it seems that each spell creates a seperate dagger.
| Drejk |
Would you care to explain why you don't think it's correct under RAW?
Because twilight knife is not personal spell:
Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).
| FiddlersGreen |
FiddlersGreen wrote:Would you care to explain why you don't think it's correct under RAW?Because twilight knife is not personal spell:
prd wrote:Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).
Actually, this strengthens my opinion that twilight knife should stack with itself. It does not explain why Blueluck thinks it would stack with itself. As a non-personal spell, each casting creates independant extrinsic effects that are directed by your actions.
| Blueluck |
School evocation [force] Level sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S, F (a small knife)
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: floating knife of force
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: yes
You create a darkly sinister floating knife that attacks the same creature as you each round. If you choose not to attack a creature, or you make an attack that affects multiple opponents, the knife makes no attack during that round.
The knife uses your base attack bonus modified by either your Intelligence or Charisma bonus (whichever is higher) when making this attack. Unless you specifically will it to do otherwise, or it proves impossible to do so, the knife always maneuvers itself so that it can flank your opponent before making the attack. The knife deals 1d4 points of force damage on a successful hit and has the same threat range and critical multipliers as a normal dagger. In addition, if the target is denied a Dexterity bonus to AC or the knife flanks the target, the knife can make sneak attacks as a rogue, inflicting an extra 1d6 points of force damage per four caster levels on a successful attack.
A twilight knife cannot be attacked or harmed by physical attacks, but dispel magic, disintegrate, a sphere of annihilation, or a rod of cancellation affects it. A twilight knife's AC against touch attacks is 12 (10 + size bonus for Tiny object) plus your Dexterity modifier.
If an attacked creature has spell resistance, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against that spell resistance the first time the twilight knife strikes it. If the knife is successfully resisted, the spell is dispelled. If not, the weapon has its normal full effect on that creature for the duration of the spell.
I love the idea of this spell, but I dislike the implementation. It does too little damage for a 3rd level spell, and has the very strict requirement that the caster attacks each round for there to be any effect. At 5th level, the best you can hope for is a total of 30 damage at a cost of 6 standard actions and a 3rhd level spell. A simple Magic Missile at the same level will deal 10 damage for a 1st level spell and a single action, at much longer range, with no attack roll. I feel like Twilight Knife would make a perfect 1st level spell. As a 3rd level spell, perhaps it could have a target of “touch” so that you could cast it on your melee buddies.
I can see that it would be much better for a Magus or perhaps a particular kind of Arcane Trickster.
| FiddlersGreen |
** spoiler omitted **
I love the idea of this spell, but I dislike the implementation. It does too little damage for a 3rd level spell, and has the very strict requirement that the caster attacks each round for there...
I saw it as a bone thrown to the Eldritch Knight, and even then only really viable if stackable. Kinda like the dude in this video at 0:40 to 0:46-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXpVI9Yp8F4
But on a somewhat smaller scale.