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say you attempt to use a scroll that is higher than your CL and you fail the CL check, what happens to the scroll? the prd does not say, it only covers a check chance for a mishap. in the case of a mishap the spell takes effect but is bothced so the scroll is used. but if you just fail the CL check to use a scroll in the first place and succeed on the mishap chance does the scroll remain intact and can be attempted to cast it again? i would say yes but im just not sure. this could be very important as a player of mine needs to buy a scroll of greater magic fang for creating a magic item to use in it's creation.
say you attempt to use a scroll that is higher than your CL and you fail the CL check, what happens to the scroll? the prd does not say, it only covers a check chance for a mishap. in the case of a mishap the spell takes effect but is bothced so the scroll is used. but if you just fail the CL check to use a scroll in the first place and succeed on the mishap chance does the scroll remain intact and can be attempted to cast it again? i would say yes but im just not sure. this could be very important as a player of mine needs to buy a scroll of greater magic fang for creating a magic item to use in it's creation.
I believe if you fail by 5 or more you cannot atempt to activate it again until tommorow. but the scroll is not consumed.
I beleive in 3.5 failed scroll activation resulted in losing the spell off the scroll but my memeory is hazy on this.
you might also be thinking about losing spells having failed to copy them into a spellbook.
The act of casting the spell from the scroll uses a trigger activation causing it to be consumed doesn't it? So regardless of if it worked or not it would be used up?
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A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated .. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully .. The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll as the spell is cast.
I agree, it seems if the user fails the caster level check but doesn't suffer a mishap, he doesn't activate the scroll and the writing remains on it. On a mishap, the item actually takes effect, so that should count as activating and using up the scroll.
Note that your player has to cast greater magic fang each day that he works on his item (p. 553), so one scroll probably won't be enough.
A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated .. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully .. The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll as the spell is cast.I agree, it seems if the user fails the caster level check but doesn't suffer a mishap, he doesn't activate the scroll and the writing remains on it. On a mishap, the item actually takes effect, so that should count as activating and using up the scroll.
Note that your player has to cast greater magic fang each day that he works on his item (p. 553), so one scroll probably won't be enough.
Just occured to me that wouldn't work if you don't have the required spell on your spell list then you take a +5 to the craft DC check to make it , having a scroll dosen't change that.
if you had a ranger or druid help you then that would solve the issue
"The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated"
"The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll as the spell is cast"
This would indicate that AS you are casting the spell from the scroll the writing vanishes (not after) and that activating it does not necessarily mean casting it successfully. As such, there would be no spell left on the scroll when the spell is finished casting.
Releasing that magic is what would cause a mishap and why would those mishaps be the spell going off in a way unplanned and then still allowing you to cast it again? Essentially that would mean a 1st level character could cast an 8th level spell over and over and over, 'screwing it up' each time to have it do different effects.
Check out the Scroll Mishaps on page 491 of the core rulebook.
The act of casting the spell from the scroll uses a trigger activation causing it to be consumed doesn't it? So regardless of if it worked or not it would be used up?
see thats whats stumping me. if you fail the caster level check do you actually activate the trigger? i would say you failed triggering it and hence the scroll did nothing and hence remains on the page.
take UMD for instance, which i looked there for maybe a hint of evidence. with UMD you can try again, it doesn't say in the case of scrolls there used up, or that with scrolls you can't try again.
A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated .. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully .. The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll as the spell is cast.I agree, it seems if the user fails the caster level check but doesn't suffer a mishap, he doesn't activate the scroll and the writing remains on it. On a mishap, the item actually takes effect, so that should count as activating and using up the scroll.
Note that your player has to cast greater magic fang each day that he works on his item (p. 553), so one scroll probably won't be enough.
i guess your right... but i was mistaken what he wants to have done is buy a scroll of permanency and greater magic fang and make the greater magic fang permanent.
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i guess your right... but i was mistaken what he wants to have done is buy a scroll of permanency and greater magic fang and make the greater magic fang permanent.A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated .. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully .. The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll as the spell is cast.I agree, it seems if the user fails the caster level check but doesn't suffer a mishap, he doesn't activate the scroll and the writing remains on it. On a mishap, the item actually takes effect, so that should count as activating and using up the scroll.
Note that your player has to cast greater magic fang each day that he works on his item (p. 553), so one scroll probably won't be enough.
Can he use both divine and arcane scrolls (or afford a scroll of limited wish or miracle)? If so, it should work. Better watch out for dispel magic.
Can he use both divine and arcane scrolls (or afford a scroll of limited wish or miracle)? If so, it should work. Better watch out for dispel magic.i guess your right... but i was mistaken what he wants to have done is buy a scroll of permanency and greater magic fang and make the greater magic fang permanent.A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated .. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully .. The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll as the spell is cast.I agree, it seems if the user fails the caster level check but doesn't suffer a mishap, he doesn't activate the scroll and the writing remains on it. On a mishap, the item actually takes effect, so that should count as activating and using up the scroll.
Note that your player has to cast greater magic fang each day that he works on his item (p. 553), so one scroll probably won't be enough.
yes he has greater magic fang on his spell list, im not sure permanency but i think so. in any case he could cast the magic fang and the party wizard could cast the permanency. Plus he's very aware of the dispel magic. but the catser level of permanency is a fairly high caster level check, hence why im trying to figure out what happens to a scroll if you fail to activate it. if the failed attempt uses up the scroll it might not be worth the effort. especially since permancy is really expensive and if used up would result in lots of gold wasted for nothing.