Amulet of Mighty Fists is what you want for that.
except they get 3 different natural weapons that are affected by the amulet so a more reasonable comparison would be 3 weapons vs 1 amulet of mighty fists...
so 3 weapons...
+1 6,000gp
+2 24,000gp
+3 54,000gp
+4 96,000gp
+5 150,000gp
Amulet of Mighty Fists
+1 5,000gp
+2 20,000gp
+3 45,000gp
+4 80,000gp
+5 125,000gp
looks like a deal to me o.O
I bought Amulet of Mighty Fists for my Alchemist who has three natural attacks, but I made the Amulet corrosive (+1d6 acid) instead of just +1. For having +1d6 acid damage for all of my three attacks is worth the money in my opinion. I would also think they're treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, since it's a magic weapon special ability.
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what if they dont have 3 attacks? only claws or like dragon 2claws, bite, wings ect?except they get 3 different natural weapons that are affected by the amulet so a more reasonable comparison would be 3 weapons vs 1 amulet of mighty fists...
so 3 weapons...
+1 6,000gp
+2 24,000gp
+3 54,000gp
+4 96,000gp
+5 150,000gpAmulet of Mighty Fists
+1 5,000gp
+2 20,000gp
+3 45,000gp
+4 80,000gp
+5 125,000gplooks like a deal to me o.O
Amulet of Mighty Fists give ALL unarmed and natural attacks. So once you have three or more natural attacks, it is a deal. Till then, it's not.
But one of the more common houserules (that I've seen) is to allow players to enchant their natural attacks as regular weapons (so effective enhancement bonus squared x2000 gp).
I would say if you want it to only affect claws only, to create a set of gloves that work the same way but only work on the claws. Could cut the cost down to equivalent of two weapons then.
If you just want it for bite then maybe an amulet or headgear that makes the bite (and only the bite) magical and price as a magic weapon.
But one of the more common houserules (that I've seen) is to allow players to enchant their natural attacks as regular weapons (so effective enhancement bonus squared x2000 gp).
Yes this to. This is what my characters eventually end up doing. Just cast permanency with greater magic fang. It doesn't grant special things like flaming but you can still get +5 natural attacks with it.
I bought Amulet of Mighty Fists for my Alchemist who has three natural attacks, but I made the Amulet corrosive (+1d6 acid) instead of just +1. For having +1d6 acid damage for all of my three attacks is worth the money in my opinion. I would also think they're treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, since it's a magic weapon special ability.
I'm pretty sure that's not true - a weapon needs a +1 enhancement bonus to overcome damage reduction, not just a weapon that is in some way magical or has a +1 equivalent magic on it instead of the enhancement bonus.
Yes this to. This is what my characters eventually end up doing. Just cast permanency with greater magic fang. It doesn't grant special things like flaming but you can still get +5 natural attacks with it.
I thought of that too, but was too afraid that an ill-placed dispel magic would rob me of my hard earned bonuses.
Amulet of Mighty Fists is expensive unless you have multiple natural attacks which each benefit from the adjustment. It's not a good upgrade for a big Slam attack but work pretty well for Bite,Claw, Claw or Bite,Claw,Claw,Claw(Rake),Claw(Rake), or Bite,Claw,Claw,Wing, Tail ;) Mixing natural and unarmed attacks in the case of a Monk with a natural attack is also a good candidate.
If you are really only getting 1 natural attack intermixed with manufactured weapon attacks then I don't think the Amulet is a good investment.
Later on it might be worth getting a base cost amulet in order to help with DR (magic) but natural weapons kinda lose out unless you are in effect paying a discount for multiple attack upgrades.
APG introduced brass knuckles which can be combined with unarmed attacks, it might be worthwhile to allow them to be combined with some sorts of natural attacks like Slams. That would definitely be a house rule though and it wouldn't help with bites :(
I'm pretty sure that's not true - a weapon needs a +1 enhancement bonus to overcome damage reduction, not just a weapon that is in some way magical or has a +1 equivalent magic on it instead of the enhancement bonus.
Yes, that seems to be the case after reading damage reduction rules more carefully.
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So a few comments about the amulet of mighty fists.
Unlike weapons you can give it only flaming or only holy, this is a huge cost savings. A flaming amulet of mighty fists costs 5,000 gp, Holy costs 20,000gp and hits any evil creatures that has DR/ magic or even DR/ good (which is most). Assuming you are going to be fighting more evil creatures Holy is your best bet. (With a normal weapon you have to get a +1 enhancement first so a Holy longsword costs a touch more than 18,000gp).
So the amulet plus natural attacks is arguably a bargain compared to weapon prices. If you don't have two or more natural attacks you are better of just using a weapon regardless.
If you use a wand or Potion Magic Fang and the Flaming/ Holy Amulet the bonuses stack. Greater Magic Fang nets you that effect on all attacks for 5 hours+.
Feats
Eldritch Claws from the APG bypasses DR/ magic and DR/ silver but requires a +6 BAB.
Finally, there is the monk option. You carry a secondary weapon to bypass a specific type of DR.
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I thought of that too, but was too afraid that an ill-placed dispel magic would rob me of my hard earned bonuses.Yes this to. This is what my characters eventually end up doing. Just cast permanency with greater magic fang. It doesn't grant special things like flaming but you can still get +5 natural attacks with it.
Eh... the cost of permanent greater magic fangs is dirt cheap compared to the cost of a more expensive amulet. If you enhance them individually with magic fang you can enhance three natural weapons for the same cost and it's three spells to dispel (though they are easier to lose individually).
dose any one have any ideas (magic items) that can make natural attacks (claws, bite, ect)?
this may be a bad EXP
Lizardfolk as a player char want to have his claws as if it was a +1 weaponeven batter
durid animal companion bracers of magic fang somthing like thatwhat would be the cost for something like that (bracers of magic fang)?
If it was me.
Potion of Natural Weapon Enchantment
Requirement: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Brew Potion. Grater Magic Fang
Effect: The in-dower of this potion, permanent enchant one Natural Attack of his choose.
Cost: See Table 15-8 Weapons on page 468, except all cost are to be Double in price. This is due to rule "No Space limitation", that natural weapon have.
......
So your lizard man wants 2 claws and a bite attack all to do +1, just have him buy/make 3 of these potion, and he will be good to go.
......
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Should be "Elixir of Natural Weapon Enchantment" since potions have specific in-game mechanics and elixirs can vary quite a bit from those.
Even at that it's not entirely solid since elixirs and potions generally have set durations. Also, Craft Magic Arms and Armor isn't a great choice, I would suggest the following would be more consistent with existing rules:
Requirement: Craft Wondrous Items, Permanence, Grater Magic Fang
Using Craft Arms* and Armor kind of implies you are making a permanent weapon out of the characters natural weapons. If you were to do this I would suggest an entirely different route and make a custom 'weapon' that requires surgery or some sort of alchemical flesh alteration process.
dose any one have any ideas (magic items) that can make natural attacks (claws, bite, ect)?
this may be a bad EXP
Lizardfolk as a player char want to have his claws as if it was a +1 weaponeven batter
durid animal companion bracers of magic fang somthing like thatwhat would be the cost for something like that (bracers of magic fang)?
If it was me.
Potion of Natural Weapon Enchantment
Requirement: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Brew Potion. Grater Magic FangEffect: The in-dower of this potion, permanent enchant one Natural Attack of his choose.
Cost: See Table 15-8 Weapons on page 468, except all cost are to be Double in price. This is due to rule "No Space limitation", that natural weapon have.
......
So your lizard man wants 2 claws and a bite attack all to do +1, just have him buy/make 3 of these potion, and he will be good to go.
......
Craft wonder item or Potion... what ever, was just using it as a deliver system. Really, if the you can get the lizard man to set still until your done, all you really need is Enchant Arms and Armor.
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Yes it is permanent, which is why it requires Enchant arms and armor.
.......
The who Surgery idea, or alchemical way is nice if you want to do the frankinstin, fluff route. Other wise why bother.
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Easy, Simple, Quick. = Cost twice the gold of a normal magic item bonus, and once done, is permanent.
My way it cost 2 feat to make, and cost the person getting it twice the cost of a magic weapon with the same bonus. Why penalize natural weapon any more than that is beyond me.
I bought Amulet of Mighty Fists for my Alchemist who has three natural attacks, but I made the Amulet corrosive (+1d6 acid) instead of just +1. For having +1d6 acid damage for all of my three attacks is worth the money in my opinion. I would also think they're treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, since it's a magic weapon special ability.
It's already been covered, but...
Technically, if you have an amulet of mighty fists (corrosive), then your natural attacks are not counted as magic for overcoming damage resistance since they lack an enhancement bonus; see Overcoming Damage Resistance on pg. 562 of the Core Rulebook. However, I didn't see anyone mention that the +1d6 from acid is considered energy damage, which is not affected by DR; acid resistance/immunity will apply to reduce/negate the acid damage, though.
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Craft wonder item or Potion... what ever, was just using it as a deliver system. Really, if the you can get the lizard man to set still until your done, all you really need is Enchant Arms and Armor.
Yeah silly me for suggesting a game rules consistent way to do things in the rules forum.
My way it cost 2 feat to make, and cost the person getting it twice the cost of a magic weapon with the same bonus. Why penalize natural weapon any more than that is beyond me.
If you feel 'punished' for using natural weapons following the existing rules then you are doing it wrong. There are plenty of game-system legal ways to make natural weapons effective.
Enchant Arms and Armor is by RAW
Ok forget the Brew Potion requirement.
Just let the caster enchant the lizard man claws or teeth, just like you do any other weapon.
Cost: See Table 15-8 Weapons on page 468, except all cost are to be Double in price. This is due to rule "No Space limitation", that natural weapon have.
It really is not that hard.
.....
By the way, the brew potion idea, is not worse than the, lets replace the creature arm by surgery.....which is not by RAW either.
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Since most spells which involve enhancing weapons are clearly separate from the ones enhancing natural weapons and it's a feat that enhances weapons I'm almost certain the designers would disagree with you. I suspect the vast majority of GMs would say no also.
Even if they allowed that, dropping it into a potion that you can sell doesn't even remotely follow the rules for crafting magic items.
If it was me.
Potion of Natural Weapon Enchantment
Requirement: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Brew Potion. Grater Magic Fang
Effect: The in-dower of this potion, permanent enchant one Natural Attack of his choose.
Cost: See Table 15-8 Weapons on page 468, except all cost are to be Double in price. This is due to rule "No Space limitation", that natural weapon have.
......
So your lizard man wants 2 claws and a bite attack all to do +1, just have him buy/make 3 of these potion, and he will be good to go.
I didnt see it mentioned here but there is a feat in the APG that makes claw attacks count as silver and magic for DR purposes. I, however, believe it requires BAB of 6+ so may not work depending on the level of the character in question. There is no benefit to attack and damage with the feat though. I also believe you could have magic fang/ greater magic fang made perminent on his natural attacks freeing up the neck slot if you wanted to go for straight attack and damage bonuses.
and takes 3 turn to use them thats damage can be doing in the 3 truns he used the potionSo your lizard man wants 2 claws and a bite attack all to do +1, just have him buy/make 3 of these potion, and he will be good to go.
It's a permanent enchantment so he would use this before combat even starts.
one more thing when was the last time you seen a plyer use 3 weapons at one time (swords ect)?except they get 3 different natural weapons that are affected by the amulet so a more reasonable comparison would be 3 weapons vs 1 amulet of mighty fists...
so 3 weapons...
+1 6,000gp
+2 24,000gp
+3 54,000gp
+4 96,000gp
+5 150,000gpAmulet of Mighty Fists
+1 5,000gp
+2 20,000gp
+3 45,000gp
+4 80,000gp
+5 125,000gplooks like a deal to me o.O
A fighter in the party I am DMing has two aldori duelling blades, a great sword and a composite long bow. He doesn't use them all at once but he does have use for them at any given time.
Should be "Elixir of Natural Weapon Enchantment" since potions have specific in-game mechanics and elixirs can vary quite a bit from those.
Even at that it's not entirely solid since elixirs and potions generally have set durations. Also, Craft Magic Arms and Armor isn't a great choice, I would suggest the following would be more consistent with existing rules:
Requirement: Craft Wondrous Items, Permanence, Grater Magic Fang
Using Craft Arms* and Armor kind of implies you are making a permanent weapon out of the characters natural weapons. If you were to do this I would suggest an entirely different route and make a custom 'weapon' that requires surgery or some sort of alchemical flesh alteration process.
** spoiler omitted **
I agree with having to use craft wonderous item if it is supposed to be an elixir of sorts.
If it was me.
Potion of Natural Weapon Enchantment
Requirement: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Brew Potion. Grater Magic FangEffect: The in-dower of this potion, permanent enchant one Natural Attack of his choose.
Cost: See Table 15-8 Weapons on page 468, except all cost are to be Double in price. This is due to rule "No Space limitation", that natural weapon have.
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So your lizard man wants 2 claws and a bite attack all to do +1, just have him buy/make 3 of these potion, and he will be good to go.
This mean on Monday at 12:00 pm, your wizard has finally got done making these potions. You spend 3 rounds drinking them down, while selecting a different effect to enchant.
This PERMANENT enchant that natural body weapon. You can than use that claw +1 for the rest of your lizard mans life.
OR until, someone Sunders/Chops off your hand/claw.
OR until, a wizard cast Mage's Disjunction on the hand/claw and dispells the magic.
OR until, you die and get a Reincarnate spell, new body means you lose the old body enchantment.
OR until, you die (lose the body part in question), and get a Resurrection spell, or True Resurrection spell.
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Please note: This is not just Brew Potion, but Brew Potion PLUS Enchant Arms and Armor feat. The potion is just the deliver system, for the Enchant arms and Armor effect.
You are just letting the person enchant a body part instead of a weapon.
The person is paying Double the cost for the same effect you would get if done on an object. I repeat DOUBLE the cost (+1 magic sword = 2,000 gold.... +1 magic claw = 4,000 gold).
Someone ask why not Wondrous Item feat. Well because that is for Items, and not people. Because Wondrous items have way over large catagory as is. Because the idea is to enchant a person, not an item. Because i like potions, as a deliver system, as better fluff.
Natural Weapon Enchantment of Frost in a Potion
Requirement: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Brew Potion. Grater Magic Fang, chill metal or ice storm; Moderate evocation; CL 8th.
Effect: The in-dower of this potion, permanent enchant one Natural Attack of his choose. The natural weapon gains a +1 attack/damage bonus. Upon command, a Frost weapon is sheathed in icy cold that deals an extra 1d6 points of cold damage on a successful hit. The cold does not harm the wielder, The effect remains until another command is given.
Cost = Retail 16,000 gold Creation 8,000 gold.
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Someone ask why not Wondrous Item feat. Well because that is for Items, and not people. Because Wondrous items have way over large catagory as is. Because the idea is to enchant a person, not an item. Because i like potions, as a deliver system, as better fluff.
Brew Potion is for brewing potions. A potion "...can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures." Your 'potion' isn't a potion at all, it's something else entirely which is why you need Craft Wondrous Items.
In Pathfinder RPG any drinkable item that does not follow the potion rules is a wondrous item, generally an elixir.
Craft Arms and Armor is also for crafting magic items and not people so I'm not sure why you have a problem with people being items with one of the feats and not the other.
Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Following this rule, wouldn't the better question be, "How does my character get DR/Magic?"
Natural Weapon Enchantment of Flame in a Potion
Requirement: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Brew Potion. Grater Magic Fang, flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Moderate evocation; CL 10th.
Effect: The in-dower of this potion, permanent enchant one Natural Attack of his choose. The natural weapon gains a +1 attack/damage bonus. Upon command, a Flaming weapon is sheathed in fire that deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The fire does not harm the wielder, The effect remains until another command is given.
Cost = Retail 16,000 gold Creation 8,000 gold.
Can't you just find a druid and wizard for hire and have one cast gr. magic fang and the other cast permanency?
The cost would be simple for the wizard:
CL11 (11x5x10)+ 7500 material cost = 8050
The cost for the druid would be dependant on the bonus desired and the level of druid available.
CL5 +1: (5x3x10) = 150
CL8 +2: (8x3x10) = 240
CL12 +3: (12x3x10)= 360
CL16 +4: (16x3x10)= 480
CL20 +5: (20x3x10)= 600
Can't you just find a druid and wizard for hire and have one cast gr. magic fang and the other cast permanency?
With the creation of Magic Craft feats... the Permanency spell has had other limitation placed on it. If you re-read it now, only some buff can be cast on other, while some are self only. It you DM will allow it, sure. But with all things, it would be bending some rules.
Craft Arms and Armor + Brew Potion (2 feat) = To bend some rules, and let you do stuff, that helps unarmed attacks
:D
With the creation of Magic Craft feats... the Permanency spell has had other limitation placed on it. If you re-read it now, only some buff can be cast on other, while some are self only. It you DM will allow it, sure. But with all things, it would be bending some rules.
Craft Arms and Armor + Brew Potion (2 feat) = To bend some rules, and let you do stuff, that helps unarmed attacks
:D
Both magic fang spells are touch spells that can be cast on other creatures, and permanency can be used to make this spell permanent on another creature. This is a perfectly rules-legal way to achive the effect that is desired.
There's no need for any other rules bending.
With the creation of Magic Craft feats... the Permanency spell has had other limitation placed on it. If you re-read it now, only some buff can be cast on other, while some are self only. It you DM will allow it, sure. But with all things, it would be bending some rules.
Craft Arms and Armor + Brew Potion (2 feat) = To bend some rules, and let you do stuff, that helps unarmed attacks
:D
Both magic fang spells are touch spells that can be cast on other creatures, and permanency can be used to make this spell permanent on another creature. This is a perfectly rules-legal way to achive the effect that is desired.
There's no need for any other rules bending.
That's how I read the permanency spell section.
I bought Amulet of Mighty Fists for my Alchemist who has three natural attacks, but I made the Amulet corrosive (+1d6 acid) instead of just +1. For having +1d6 acid damage for all of my three attacks is worth the money in my opinion. I would also think they're treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, since it's a magic weapon special ability.
I find it important to mention that you can't give a weapon or armor an enchantment without first giving it at least a +1 enhancement bonus. I assume that the Amulet follows (most of) the normal weapon enchantment rules in this manner.
I bought Amulet of Mighty Fists for my Alchemist who has three natural attacks, but I made the Amulet corrosive (+1d6 acid) instead of just +1. For having +1d6 acid damage for all of my three attacks is worth the money in my opinion. I would also think they're treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, since it's a magic weapon special ability.I find it important to mention that you can't give a weapon or armor an enchantment without first giving it at least a +1 enhancement bonus. I assume that the Amulet follows (most of) the normal weapon enchantment rules in this manner.
+1
As a follow-up to my previous thought: The Invulnerability classification of armor grants DR 5/magic. Theoretically, this should meet the requirement of being vulnerable to magic weapons, and therefore give natural attacks the abiltiy to bypass DR as magic weapons, themselves.
The only downside is that Invulnerable counts as +3 worth of enchantment on an armor.
I doubt this is RAI, but it seems like it falls within RAW. Is the monster you're referring to capable of wearing armor?
I bought Amulet of Mighty Fists for my Alchemist who has three natural attacks, but I made the Amulet corrosive (+1d6 acid) instead of just +1. For having +1d6 acid damage for all of my three attacks is worth the money in my opinion. I would also think they're treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, since it's a magic weapon special ability.I find it important to mention that you can't give a weapon or armor an enchantment without first giving it at least a +1 enhancement bonus. I assume that the Amulet follows (most of) the normal weapon enchantment rules in this manner.
Not the case with Amulet of mighty fists, rules especially state that you don't need to have the +1 enchantment bonus before adding special abilities. And that's why I think Mighty fists is a sweet amulet in Pathfinder =).
Not the case with Amulet of mighty fists, rules especially state that you don't need to have the +1 enchantment bonus before adding special abilities. And that's why I think Mighty fists is a sweet amulet in Pathfinder =).I bought Amulet of Mighty Fists for my Alchemist who has three natural attacks, but I made the Amulet corrosive (+1d6 acid) instead of just +1. For having +1d6 acid damage for all of my three attacks is worth the money in my opinion. I would also think they're treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, since it's a magic weapon special ability.I find it important to mention that you can't give a weapon or armor an enchantment without first giving it at least a +1 enhancement bonus. I assume that the Amulet follows (most of) the normal weapon enchantment rules in this manner.
I believe it was that way in 3.5 as well.
With the creation of Magic Craft feats... the Permanency spell has had other limitation placed on it. If you re-read it now, only some buff can be cast on other, while some are self only. It you DM will allow it, sure. But with all things, it would be bending some rules.
Craft Arms and Armor + Brew Potion (2 feat) = To bend some rules, and let you do stuff, that helps unarmed attacks
:D
Both magic fang spells are touch spells that can be cast on other creatures, and permanency can be used to make this spell permanent on another creature. This is a perfectly rules-legal way to achive the effect that is desired.
There's no need for any other rules bending.
The only part in which RAW argues against your example, is that the caster of permanency must also be the caster of the other spell (although it might reasonably be disregarded).
This does not change the fact that it can be done with a scroll of either permanency or greater magic fang, at a price of a little less than 10 k or a little more, whether you get the druid or the wizard to do the spell casting.
It is a dirt cheap way to get a +5 enchantment, and if the caster is a level 20 druid, then the dispelling is not going to be that much of an issue.
Not so related to character in question, but I was thinking that an Alchemist can buy a potion of greater magic fang +5, take extend potion discovery, and then cast Alchemical allocation to use the potion without consuming it and have the spell in effect for 10+ hours per day. Only problem is that can one have greater magic fang in effect when he doesn't have natural weapons? Or is it still in effect for 10 hours, and when Alchemist takes his mutagen with feral mutagen discovery which gives him natural attacks, the effect is granted?
Not so related to character in question, but I was thinking that an Alchemist can buy a potion of greater magic fang +5, take extend potion discovery, and then cast Alchemical allocation to use the potion without consuming it and have the spell in effect for 10+ hours per day. Only problem is that can one have greater magic fang in effect when he doesn't have natural weapons? Or is it still in effect for 10 hours, and when Alchemist takes his mutagen with feral mutagen discovery which gives him natural attacks, the effect is granted?
The book says magic fang and greater magic fang work on unarmed strikes so I would assume you could have it in effect even before you used a mutagen that gacve natural attacks. Or you know be a half orc and get the bite attack feat/racial feature. or multi with the shapeshifter ranger type and get natural attacks from that.
The book says magic fang and greater magic fang work on unarmed strikes so I would assume you could have it in effect even before you used a mutagen that gacve natural attacks. Or you know be a half orc and get the bite attack feat/racial feature. or multi with the shapeshifter ranger type and get natural attacks from that.
Hm, true. My character is already a Half-orc, but I didn't take the racial feature, I get the bite from Feral mutagen. So I need to drink the potion and decide that it affects my bite attack, but I don't have the bite attack when I'm using the potion. Of course I can always take the potion after using mutagen, but Alchemical allocation has a casting time of one round, and drinking the potion is standard action, so I'm using effectively two rounds just for that one potion. That's why I would like to use it in the morning before venturing off to find some bad guys.