| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Last night, while in a battle with an NPC, I tried to Sunder a weapon that had a magic enchantment on it. (+2 equivalent)
So that gave it +20 hp and +4 hardness.
Then, the guy used the Bane (su) of the Inquisitor on his weapon. Bane states that the weapons bonus is actually +2 greater than it's actual bonus against that foe (me).
So here is the question. Do temporary spells increase a weapons hardness and HP or is it just when it is permanently enchanted?
In other words, is the weapon +8 hardness/+40 hp after he uses a temporary effect on it?
*bump*
Nobody has any imput lol?
|
I'd rule that a weapon would gain the benefit of that spell when against an attack by any creature that the Bane is aligned against in terms of hardness & HP.
How I interpret it is this: The magical enchantment adds to the hardness and HP not because it's physically making the actual steel or material of the weapon itself stronger; it's a rule interpretation for the strength of the magic force it was imbued with.
Essentially the force of the magic per enhancement bonus is equivalent to material (steel, cold iron, whatever) of the power of X hardness & X HP.
The magic force that makes the sword +2 in the first place is more-or-less the same as the spell Bane, or any other spell that modifies the enhancement bonus of a weapon. If the creature attacking the weapon is the same as the Bane is aligned against, the spell would activate. Since the magic would be active, it's enhancement bonus grows and each point of enhancement translates to more hardness & HP for those reasons.
I would also rule this to be true with weapons that have the Bane ability permanently on the item.
I'm going to have to say no.
If the weapon could only activate under a specific condition but otherwise counted as a magical weapon against everything, then I could see this being a gray area.
If the weapon only gained DR when under the effect of a greater enchantment, then I could see this being a gray area.
But as it stands, when there is a target creature and nontarget creature, a weapon has two simultaneous statlines (for this example, I will use a Longsword): 14 Hardness and 25 HP versus non-target creature, and 18 Hardness and 45 HP versus target creature.
Namely, this issue is in reference to simultaneously having two Hit Point values at the same time. A target creature could Sunder the Bane weapon until it had been reduced by 40 Hit Points. With its target Hit Points, this is enough to keep the weapon intact. However, with its non-target hit points, the weapon has simultaneously taken enough damage to be completely destroyed.
So we have determined that one possible interpretation doesn't appear to be legal. Let us switch, then, to justifying the alternative.
It is fully consistent for a Bane weapon to have an enhancement bonus that is +2 higher than normal in regard to a creature, without being greater in regard to a weapon. For example, a creature with a Bane weapon can attack you, and will receive a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls. If this creature is not holding a weapon that is normally magical, then causing it to become a Bane weapon will further allow that creature to pierce any Damage Reduction / Magic that you have active. Allowing the Bane property to further apply to the creature's equipment causes it to possess quantum statistics and simultaneously be Broken *and* Destroyed.
Unless we are going to begin arguing that a weapon that is simultaneously destroyed as well as merely Broken can still be used to attack, but only in regard to the Baned-foe, I think we have that pretty much wrapped up.
This is a 3.5 hold over rule that I actually like and still use. 3.5 rules weren't clear on whether temporary bonuses increased HP and hardness, so I just came up with some rules that worked for me. I allow spells like Greater Magic Weapon to increase hp and hardness, I don't allow bane. I also didn't allow the extra bonus from bane to allow a weapon to count as Epic for overcoming DR.
In PF, however, that rule has been removed altogether. In PF, a magic weapon can only be damaged by a weapon with an equal or greater enhancement bonus. Magic weapons get no increase to Hp or hardness. There's still no ruling on whether bane counts.
In PF, however, that rule has been removed altogether. In PF, a magic weapon can only be damaged by a weapon with an equal or greater enhancement bonus. Magic weapons get no increase to Hp or hardness.
Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons: Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield, and +10 to the item's hit points.
I would rule no in this case. The hardness and hp of items is increased by the actual enhancement bonus, not by special abilities that have an effective bonus amount to determine cost of the item. Bane is a special ability therefore it does not increase the hardness or hp of the weapon.
The effective increase in enhancement bonus vs. the creature specific to the bane ability increases odds of a successful hit and increases damage, but it does not make the weapon more resilient to damage that is directed at it specifically.
Just how I would play it anyway. Whatever works for you and your players is what you should go with.