I am making an Alchemist in a new campaign and I have crazy Craft (alchemy) skill.
I think I would like to start brewing potions.
Here's my questions:
Is There anyway of reducing the cost of making a potion?
I couldn't give a potion a class or alignment restriction could I?
(It would be really awesome if you could)
If so would that reduce the cost to make the potion?
Regardless of the arguments over weather or not you can add a +5 to your DC to make a potion without the spell requirement(arguments which I would rather not have in this thread thank you):
You can still make a potion as long as you have access to the required spell through another magic item or spellcaster... right?
One of my companions has Craft Wondrous Items If he wanted to make me a "Headband of vast intelligence" could I provide him with a potion of "Fox's cunning" as the spell Requirement?
That's all I have at the moment I'll have more later!
Is There anyway of reducing the cost of making a potion?
There is a trait called Hedge wizard which makes a small reduction in all magical items made (but the alchemist can't make anything BUT potions)
-look at the second level alchemist spell "alchemical allocation". It basically lets you cast any spell you have in a potion if you take two rounds to do it by recycling potions.
-There is also the dilution ability, which lets you get two potions for a cost slightly higher than 1.
I couldn't give a potion a class or alignment restriction could I?
(It would be really awesome if you could)If so would that reduce the cost to make the potion?
If anything something like that would add to the cost by adding two effects and a contingency in there somewhere.
You can still make a potion as long as you have access to the required spell through another magic item or spellcaster... right?
I believe so, but i'm not sure. The alchemist doesn't have the brew potion feat, he has the brew potion special ability which allows him to bypass the normal rules on brew potion, but the ability insists/specifies that the alchemist has to know the spell, which could be flavor text or a requirement above and beyond that of brew potion.
One of my companions has Craft Wondrous Items If he wanted to make me a "Headband of vast intelligence" could I provide him with a potion of "Fox's cunning" as the spell Requirement?
Probably not since its not an actual spell, but i would probably allow it if you had the infusion ability, since the headband is enchanted to recieve a spell you should be able to soak it into an infusion of foxes cunning.
One of my companions has Craft Wondrous Items If he wanted to make me a "Headband of vast intelligence" could I provide him with a potion of "Fox's cunning" as the spell Requirement?Probably not since its not an actual spell, but i would probably allow it if you had the infusion ability, since the headband is enchanted to recieve a spell you should be able to soak it into an infusion of foxes cunning.
When I brew a potion I use my extracts unless I have another source of the spell. I could let my companion use an infused extract for the purpose of making a Wondrous Item. It seems I should be able to use a potion in the same why I would use an extract.
After all both a potion and an extract provide access to the required spell through another magic item or spellcaster.
When I brew a potion I use my extracts unless I have another source of the spell. I could let my companion use an infused extract for the purpose of making a Wondrous Item. It seems I should be able to use a potion in the same why I would use an extract.
The problem is that, BY raw, the drinker of the infusion or potion is both the caster and the target of the spell, meaning that they can't cast the spell on anything but themselves, which means they can't cast it on the item.
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)
Even if you allow the potion, the infusion is not technically a magic item. As i said, i would allow it at my table but raw really doesn't cover it because the magic item creation rules didn't keep alchemists in mind.
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I couldn't give a potion a class or alignment restriction could I?
I don't think potions can be made this way, those rules are for more open ended items like wondrous items.
If so would that reduce the cost to make the potion?
Ultimately custom magic items are between you and your GM. I wouldn't allow a cost reduction for this in my campaign because a limit that doesn't affect your intended use isn't really a limit (this is also pointed out in the GMG under GM suggestions for what sort of things to allow in custom magic items).
One of my companions has Craft Wondrous Items If he wanted to make me a "Headband of vast intelligence" could I provide him with a potion of "Fox's cunning" as the spell Requirement?
I'm not even sure you can combine efforts in this way any more. Regardless it would not work with a potion or I suspect an infused extract.
The problem is that, BY raw, the drinker of the infusion or potion is both the caster and the target of the spell, meaning that they can't cast the spell on anything but themselves, which means they can't cast it on the item.Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)
Even if you allow the potion, the infusion is not technically a magic item. As i said, i would allow it at my table but raw really doesn't cover it because the magic item creation rules didn't keep alchemists in mind.
Alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows... APG 28 under brew potion
The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)CR 551 under Creating potions
In effect, an alchemist prepares his spells by mixing ingredients into a number of extracts, and then "casts" his spells by drinking the extract. APG 27
What isn't clear is weather you make a potion INSTEAD of an extract or you use an extract TO MAKE the potion. I think you use the extract to make the potion because That is the equivalent to a wizards prepared spell.
If I can make potions with an alchemist can I get the Craft Wondrous Items feat and craft a "Headband of vast intelligence?"
If I could craft a "headband of Vast intelligence" why couldn't I supply the spell so a companion in my party could craft it?
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)
Another set of questions
When it says in the Alchemy description(apg 27) "An extract once created remains potent for 1 day before becoming inert, so an alchemist must re-prepare his extracts every day." What does one day mean?
Does it mean one 24hour stretch of time?
If so wouldn't he always have to make his Extracts later and later each day?
or does it mean until you next sleep?
if so wouldn't a proud Alchemist drink any unused extracts he had before sleeping so they wouldn't go to wast?
Wouldn't drinking a bunch of unused extracts make you need to pee?
incidentally how many calories are in an extract?
If an Alchemist is drinking 18 Extracts a day he might be gaining weight.
Although I suppose an alchemist would know about purging!
Extracts are pure carbs, which is why no alchemists are on atkins.
Extracts are pure carbs, which is why no alchemists are on atkins.
Are you my evil twin?!
If I can make potions with an alchemist can I get the Craft Wondrous Items feat and craft a "Headband of vast intelligence?"
No. You don't actually cast any spells, so you don't qualify to take the feats that require a spellcasting level
Although the alchemist doesn’t actually cast spells, he does have a formulae list that determines what extracts he can create.
The problem is the prerequisite "spellcaster level X" for the magic items, the alchemist isn't actually casting spells.
Is There anyway of reducing the cost of making a potion?There is a trait called Hedge wizard which makes a small reduction in all magical items made (but the alchemist can't make anything BUT potions)
Correct on the Hedge Wizard trait, but incorrect on the alchemist being unable to create other magic items. The feat Master Craftsman allows the alchemist to make other items via a Craft or Profession skill (armor or weapons for the most part, as well as some wondrous items).
Also, remember that "potions" include such things as oil of magic weapon, etc. that affect objects instead of creatures.
The problem is the prerequisite "spellcaster level X" for the magic items, the alchemist isn't actually casting spells.
From the description of Master Craftsman: "Ranks in chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level."
Not incorrect, simply not being pedantic.
Not incorrect, simply not being pedantic.
The OP asked if they could take the Craft Wondrous Item feat and create a headband of vast intelligence. The answer is: "Yes, you can, but you need to use Master Craftsman to qualify." The answer you gave was "No."
Not incorrect, simply not being pedantic.The OP asked if they could take the Craft Wondrous Item feat and create a headband of vast intelligence. The answer is: "Yes, you can, but you need to use Master Craftsman to qualify." The answer you gave was "No."
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I said no, explained my reasoning, and went further to say why alchemists can't take craft wonderous items themselves. I simply see no reason to point out that alchemists can take master craftsman at level 7 because EVERYONE can take master craftsman. They were specifically asking if they could do so through being an alchemist.
I couldn't give a potion a class or alignment restriction could I?
If this was the case then it would be impossible to loot any useful potions from evil cultists when you burst in and start killing them, as the Temple of EVIL GOD THING would save huge money and ensure that only those who are evil could benefit from their cure potions.
Does it mean one 24hour stretch of time?
Yes.
If so wouldn't he always have to make his Extracts later and later each day?
No. Technically there's no reason the alchemist can't make new extracts while the old extracts are still in existance... so if an alchemist starts brewing at 7 am 7:02 am is probably not the time to get on his bad side. It takes 1 minute per extract, so if he makes the same number of extracts per day at 7 00 mage armor winks out and he makes a new mage armor, at 701 true strike winks out and he makes a new true strike, at 702 alter self winks out and he makes a new alter self.
or does it mean until you next sleep?
1 day = 24 hours.
if so wouldn't a proud Alchemist drink any unused extracts he had before sleeping so they wouldn't go to wast?
Only if he doesn't fear attack in the middle of the night.
Wouldn't drinking a bunch of unused extracts make you need to pee?
Potions are what.. 6 oz of liquid?
incidentally how many calories are in an extract? If an Alchemist is drinking 18 Extracts a day he might be gaining weight.
Considering that adventurers spend all day walking around in heavy* armor , fighting monsters, wielding weapons, horse back riding, running for their lives and fighting with weapons I'm pretty sure calorie counts aren't a problem even IF he's using honey as his solvent.
*an indication of the armors weight, not type.
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Another set of questions
When it says in the Alchemy description(apg 27) "An extract once created remains potent for 1 day before becoming inert, so an alchemist must re-prepare his extracts every day." What does one day mean?
It's best to simply think of extracts as weird spells. Extracts are viable until some non-determinate time the next day when your extracts per day count is reset. If someone wanted to try and abuse it I would say your extracts per day 'count' resets and all your previous day's extracts expire 24 hours after you first create an extract. Or maybe it's midnight to midnight. Generally it just resets when the party starts their adventuring day in the morning and it's not an issue. The wording here is vague and open to some abuse if you read it literally (as you've noticed).
Not incorrect, simply not being pedantic.The OP asked if they could take the Craft Wondrous Item feat and create a headband of vast intelligence. The answer is: "Yes, you can, but you need to use Master Craftsman to qualify." The answer you gave was "No."
I think BigNorseWolf did a good job in figuring out what I meant.
My question was an "if then" statement(with the then omitted) with the axiom defined and all other axioms easily inferred by out previous banter. Basically, he knew what I was getting at.
I do appreciate your suggestion but it does not help with my initial Question which was:
One of my companions has Craft Wondrous Items If he wanted to make me a "Headband of vast intelligence" could I provide him with a potion of "Fox's cunning" as the spell Requirement?
Of which I was using my Conditional as part of an argument.
I do have to change my mind on one thing, alchemists items are listed as magic items.
An alchemist can create three special types of magical items—extracts, bombs, and mutagens are transformative elixirs that the alchemist drinks to enhance his physical abilities—both of these are detailed in their own sections below.
Infusions become inert if away from the alchemist
Bombs are made by the alchemist and blow up a round later.
Mutagens last though, I wonder if someone could Use magic device to emulate a class ability.
Mutagens last though, I wonder if someone could Use magic device to emulate a class ability.
That's a good question.
Wow, the skill Use Magic Device clearly says Yes but there might be something in the description of mutagen that prevents it.
Nope,
A mutagen become inert once it leave an alchemist's possession. Non-Alchemist's who drink mutagens get sick.
At first level the Alchemist is given Brew Potion as a bonus feet(not just a special ability similar to Brew Potion). It then clarified that: "An Alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level."
It is clear from the statement "using his alchemist level as his caster level" that an alchemist isn't a caster class. Which is partly why it states that "the alchemist does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat."(also he gets it at first level and not third)
Your right an Alchemist couldn't take the Craft Wondrous Items feat. He isn't as caster. Although he could use Master Craftsman.
What is clear is that an Alchemist works with magic despite the distancing from words like "Cast." and "spell."
Also an alchemist can study a wizards spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains.
It's seems clear from the item creation section that although you need access to the spell, and and the spell needs to be triggered(or used up.) You don't actually CAST the spell during the item creation process.
It fact it says:
"(That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)"
If an Alchemist can make potions requiring him to use up either an extract or an extracts per day slot(I realy need to figure that out), and considering that he can decipher a wizards spellbook,
and considering that "access throught another magic item or spellcaster is allowed",
and considering that the spell isn't actually cast,
and considering that an alchemist has the potential to give access to the spell in three different ways(a extract slot, and infused extract, or a potion),
it seems quite reasonable that he could provide the spell for item creation.
Extracts are pure carbs, which is why no alchemists are on atkins.Are you my evil twin?!
Yes I suppose