So I am currently DMing Stolen Lands and one of my PCs hasn't played for a while and didn't want the headache of making his own character. I'm using 20 point buy and wasn't really sure which would work out better in Kingmaker.
Based on what I've seen a Cavalier would work better, they tend to have more class abilities related to rulership (which is a BIG part of the AP).
But in the end, whatever the PC would prefer is best.
I will second what Eric said.
I will also add that there are a large number of neutral enemies in the first 1/3 of the AP. He will get more mileage out of Challenge than he would out of Smite.
But both are great choices. I actually have one of each in my party right now.
For the first chapter, a Cavalier will find himself ncredibly frustrated at his inability to use his mount-
Unless he is a small Cavalier. Thus I would recommend a small Cavalier, and if not small then go Paladin.
Huh??
I'm really not sure where this is coming from. Since this isn't a spoiler-safe thread, I won't post a specific rebuttal, other than to say that was not our experience at all. Yes, there was a time or two that he had to get off, but he was mounted for the majority of the time. I challenge you to identify a campaign that allows him to stay on his horse more often than Kingmaker.
I've been playing a cavalier (order of the dragon) in Kingmaker for ten levels now and IMO the class is perfect for this AP. I'm really having fun playing a leader type character and the cavaliers skill selection is great for this. My mount has been really useful for the first nine level or so, but now we have switched out our horses for spells when we explore so haven't used my mount in a while.
That said, the paladin also has some great leadership skills and is even more charisma based than the cavalier. The paladins code may be kind of harsh when it comes to making those hard leadership decisions however.
The Cavalier in my party has a 16 CHA. He knew going into the module that he wanted to be King, so he deliberately made that stat choice. He's also taken Skill Focus Diplomacy, to give you an idea of his priorities. (Yet he's also the most effective in combat.)
If spoilers are okay: the only time that you really can't use the horse for any duration in book 1 is in the mite's lair. There are other one-off battles where you might not be able to (like against Tartuk and the Stag Lord), but it's definately in the minority. Even for the assault on the Stag Lord's fort, our Cavalier stayed mounted nearly the whole time, running around the courtyard doing danger patrol.
There are just a lot of outdoor encounters in the module. (Remember that wandering monsters might not take up much page count, but they take up a ton of time in this campaign.) When you get Spirited Charge and Ride-By attack combined with a lance... the Cavalier ends most combats before they even begin. It's devistatingly powerful. And if he can't charge? Then he and his horse can make full-attacks on the enemy. Just as deadly, it just lacks the movement.
Can the Cavalier be on the horse all the time? No, he can't. (But Enchanters can't always charm, etc, etc.) What's important is that it hasn't gotten to the point where my player has complained (and he's the prone-to-complaining type). I would say that during the first two books, the Cavalier can have his horse more often than a Paladin can have his Smite hit evil.
There are so many story lines for Paladins that just write themselves - Star Wars, Charlamaine, Gilgamesh, King Arthur, Parsival, Tristan and Isult, Lancelot, Joan of Arc, Samarkand, Robin Hood - all these people could be Paladins and all these stories could be about Paladins ;)
And whole kingdomes are build around them and for them. Here is my Daughter St. George for Slaying the Dragon and Saving the Kingdome, oh and have this Castle I am not using to live in...
Here is a spot in the King Maker threads that somebody is writing about a female Paladin who is becomming a Queen of her own Queendome ;) New Campaign... Solo Kingmaker
And for those who like a short novel about a Paladin and His Druid(NG) Whife...
Man Husband Father Ruler And Favored Soul Knight Of Iomedae also in Kingmaker threads... :)
For Crunch well, pro's and con's but for story...
There are so many story lines for Paladins that just write themselves - Star Wars, Charlamaine, Gilgamesh, King Arthur, Parsival, Tristan and Isult, Lancelot, Joan of Arc, Samarkand, Robin Hood - all these people could be Paladins and all these stories could be about Paladins ;)
And whole kingdomes are build around them and for them. Here is my Daughter St. George for Slaying the Dragon and Saving the Kingdome, oh and have this Castle I am not using to live in...Here is a spot in the King Maker threads that somebody is writing about a female Paladin who is becomming a Queen of her own Queendome ;) New Campaign... Solo Kingmaker
And for those who like a short novel about a Paladin and His Druid(NG) Whife...
Man Husband Father Ruler And Favored Soul Knight Of Iomedae also in Kingmaker threads... :)For Crunch well, pro's and con's but for story...
I largely agree. The only counterpoint I would make is the classical paladin conundrum. Having one in your group pretty much dictates what alignments and what behavior the entire group can have and engage in, unless your GM just handwaves all that RP stuff. This is accentuated in Kingmaker, which presents a lot of difficult choices, appropriately so for a kingdom-building game.
In any game I run, if someone wants to play a paladin, I try to make sure everyone else is OK with that, since it is likely to take away some of their frredom of action or create inter-party strife.
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True, the Paladin does restrict due to alignment, but since he was trying to decide between Palading and Cavalier, I was assuming the alignment wasnt a problem :)
