Dirkfreemont
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My cleric in PFS has the destruction/rage subdomain giving him rage at 8th level. I started out with 14 con, and now have an item bumping me up to 16 con. I'm considering taking raging vitality at 9th level which has a prerequisite of 15 con to use. Now since I have the +2 con item and rage is a class feature for me I qualify to take the feat, but what if I were to enter an antimagic field while already raging? I'd lose my +2 enhancement bonus and have a 14 base con, but my con would be at 20 total until I end my rage (4 con from rage and +2 from raging vitality). Would I still be able to take advantage of raging vitality since my con meets the prerequisites and I'm already raging, or would I not recieve the benefits of raging vitality since my BASE con has now dropped below the requirement? Sorry to put up such a nitpicky question, but its for a character that I'm actually playing right now and I want to know how this will be handled if it comes up. I may toss my extra ability point into con instead of wisdom since I just hit 8th level depending on the responses here.
Happler
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I, at least personally, never viewed temporary stat bonuses (any bonus that does not last at least 24 hours) as helping to qualify for feats.
Since rage only lasts for rounds/day, once you enter the antimagic field, your raging vitality feat would be disabled, since you would no longer have the required con of 15.
Same with your second question, going into rage in the antimagic field, would only grant you a temp bonus to con, and thus not qualify for the feat.
Take a look at the PRD section about ability score bonuses
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
I always counted the feats as "other bonuses". Temp bonuses give you very specific, limited bonuses from each attribute. For example, temp int, does not give you extra skill points.
| Mahorfeus |
I believe that the general guidelines are that you can keep feats if your conditions fall below their original prerequisites, but they cease to function until you meet them again. So you could take Raging Vitality, but you would lose it in the antimagic field. If that's not in the RAW, it's how I would houserule it, if there aren't any rules contradicting it. You might just have to ignore enhancement bonuses for the purpose of prerequisites.
| wraithstrike |
I believe that the general guidelines are that you can keep feats if your conditions fall below their original prerequisites, but they cease to function until you meet them again. So you could take Raging Vitality, but you would lose it in the antimagic field. If that's not in the RAW, it's how I would houserule it, if there aren't any rules contradicting it. You might just have to ignore enhancement bonuses for the purpose of prerequisites.
That is how it was in 3.5. There is probably a similar statement in PF. I just don't know where it is.
Dirkfreemont
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Whether I encounter an antimagic field or not, I like to know what would happen if I did, you know, just in case. I'm not saying I use rage to qualify, I qualify because I'm wearing the item normally, so I have the bonus for over 24 hours, so I can legally take it. When I enter an antimagic field I lose my enhancement bonus dropping me and disqualifying me. When I rage I now meet the prerequisite again and although I have not had this bonus for 24 hours I do not believe it matters. I now qualify for the feat again, right? since my score is above the requirements and I don't lose my feat when my score drops under prereqs, I just can't use the feat till my ability goes above the requirement, which it does while raging.
| Major__Tom |
By RAW, you do not lose the feat when you enter the anti-magic zone, you lose the ability to use it until your con again meets the requirements. Since you can rage as a granted power, not dependent on what your con is, as soon as you rage your con is again 18, and you again can use the feat. You can't TAKE the feat unless you have a permanent ability change, but nowhere does it say permanent when you lose/regain the feat. If that was the case, then it could just as easily be argued that unless you permanently lose the ability points, you shouldn't lose the feat. And since it is not permanent, only the duration of the anti-magic zone, you would still be able to use it. I.E. a temporary drop can take it away, a temporary gain should give it back. Again, the permanent stuff is only specified to TAKE the feat in the first place.
Side note- while rules questions like this are always fun to argue, we would never actually keep track of stuff this close. Drop your hit points by 1/level because of the con loss, and continue on. Discuss after the game, if it really matters.
| reefwood |
The prerequisite in the opening example is Con 15 to take a feat the provides a +2 Con bonus while raging, and this character has a magic item that provides a +2 enhancement bonus to Con.
How about if the character - after legally taking the feat - later had his Con permanently drained down to a base Con of 10? The magic item bumps this Con up to 12. Raging bumps Con up to 16, so the feat can be used while raging to make it Con 18. But in an anti-magic field, the base Con of 10 would not get the +2 from the magic item, so it only goes up to Con 14 while raging, so he does not have the Con 15 prerequisite while in the anti-magic field. Therefore, the Raging Vitality feat would not work in this instance, correct?
I know that this isn't what the opening poster asked but am just curious to see if I have this other example right.
| Sean FitzSimon |
The prerequisite in the opening example is Con 15 to take a feat the provides a +2 Con bonus while raging, and this character has a magic item that provides a +2 enhancement bonus to Con.
How about if the character - after legally taking the feat - later had his Con permanently drained down to a base Con of 10? The magic item bumps this Con up to 12. Raging bumps Con up to 16, so the feat can be used while raging to make it Con 18. But in an anti-magic field, the base Con of 10 would not get the +2 from the magic item, so it only goes up to Con 14 while raging, so he does not have the Con 15 prerequisite while in the anti-magic field. Therefore, the Raging Vitality feat would not work in this instance, correct?
I know that this isn't what the opening poster asked but am just curious to see if I have this other example right.
I think the consensus is this: To take a feat you need to have an ability score of X. Enhancement items count for this if worn for more than 1 day (see permanent enhancements). Once you have the feat it's yours forever (excepting fighter). When your ability score drops below X by any means you no longer qualify to use the feat, and this it's basically a dead feat until you repair your ability score.
In an antimagic field, if your score is still above the required level, kudos- it's still in use. If your ability score drops too low because of ability damage or drain, sucks- you need to get that repaired, because your feat is inactive.
| Elven_Blades |
In an antimagic field, if your score is still above the required level, kudos- it's still in use. If your ability score drops too low because of ability damage or drain, sucks- you need to get that repaired, because your feat is inactive.
I think what you meant to say here is, "If your ability score drops too low because of ability damage or drain, sucks- you need to get that repaired, because your broken!!!"
Lol :-)