Flying from prone?

[Velvetisis]

I encountered this situation as a DM and couldn't find ANYTHING about it. If a PC is under the effect of a fly spell, but has landed on the ground 1) can she be tripped [normally creatures that don't use wings to fly can't be tripped in the air] and 2) if the PC is knocked prone can she start to fly without standing up and thus avoid an attack of opportunity?

[Adam Daigle]

Even if you could fly, moving out of a threatened square still provokes an AoO. Standing up from prone doesn't figure into it in this case.

For your first question, even if a creature can fly, if it's standing on the ground, it can be tripped. At least that's how I'd rule it in my game.

[concerro]

1.Flying creatures can not be tripped. Note:Being able to fly and actually flying are two different things.
2.There is no rule against it. You will still provoke as Adam said for leaving a threatened square.

[reefwood]

Velvetisis wrote:

I encountered this situation as a DM and couldn't find ANYTHING about it. If a PC is under the effect of a fly spell, but has landed on the ground 1) can she be tripped [normally creatures that don't use wings to fly can't be tripped in the air] and 2) if the PC is knocked prone can she start to fly without standing up and thus avoid an attack of opportunity?

I was thinking about this today and do agree with the other responders but thought about something else.

This is probably RAI because it is not covered in the actual rules, but I could see how someone who is knocked prone while using the fly spell could fly away and still be prone. You would provoke an attack of opportunity if you moved out of a threatened square... but not for standing up because you didn't stand up... so you would still be prone but flying (aka. superman style) and still subject to the modifiers that go along with being prone.

If you want to fine tune this further, you could be considered not prone against creatures directly below you. Also, you could probably use a bow while prone if you are off the ground since it would no longer be in the way.

[Xraal]

If you have a Fly spell active, but have "landed", then you are still flying.

If someone is tripped; the natural reflex is to reach out and catch the ground. In this case, the same reflex would mean your feet does indeed get swooped off the ground, but because of the Fly spell, you cannot actually fall over unless you want to.

Your feet will swing up off the ground, then drop back down under you as you hover in mid-air.

Now, if you had Wings, then it would be an immediate Fly Skill check for hovering. If failed, down you go to prone.

Leaving a threatened square provokes normally, but really has nothing to do with being tripped or flying.

[BigNorseWolf]

Quote:

if the PC is knocked prone can she start to fly without standing up and thus avoid an attack of opportunity?

Cue the superman music and go. They could probably withdraw, or just leave normally and take the AoO

[mdrake]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Quote:

if the PC is knocked prone can she start to fly without standing up and thus avoid an attack of opportunity?

Cue the superman music and go. They could probably withdraw, or just leave normally and take the AoO

So here is a related question. If someone is is adjacent to you and is flying, can you use a bull rush or a grapple to pull them down to the ground? Yes, they will still be flying, just more on your plane. Or if they fly straight up, use a AOO to grab them and pull them back down before they get away?

[BigNorseWolf]

Quote:

So here is a related question. If someone is is adjacent to you and is flying, can you use a bull rush or a grapple to pull them down to the ground?

Bull rush, no. Grapple.. sort of. If you grapple them, you just have a hold of their arm or something. They are still in their square. Even if you pin them you're still in different squares. You can only bull rush people directly away from you, i don't think you can bullrush them down unless you're above them.

Neither bull rush nor grapple can be used as an attack of opportunity anymore.

Quote:

Yes, they will still be flying, just more on your plane. Or if they fly straight up, use a AOO to grab them and pull them back down before they get away?

You can pull them and hold them in place with a grapple... sort of. IF you are not above their maximum carrying capacity i don't see anything that prevents them from floating off with you holding onto them.

[Quandary]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Bull rush, no. Grapple.. sort of. If you grapple them, you just have a hold of their arm or something. They are still in their square.

Except for when a succesful Grapple would bring them to an adjacent square if they were within your Reach, but not already adjacent.

Xraal wrote:

...Now, if you had Wings, then it would be an immediate Fly Skill check for hovering. If failed, down you go to prone.

Flying Creatures are immune to Trip per RAW, and this includes Winged Flyers.

The way you seem to assume Hover Checks to apply here are also inaccurate...
Hover checks are explicitly based on total movement during ONE`S OWN own turn... If you already passed (or didn`t need to make) a Fly or Hover check, being Tripped (if they somehow could be) doesn`t make one need to pass ANOTHER check, meaning such an approach would require a further house-rule to work as you describe (IF you allowed this in the first place, a Trip maneuver would probably just count as `violent movement`).

Quote:

because of the Fly spell, you cannot actually fall over unless you want to

OK, as establised Flying means you are Immune to Trip, period. But flyers CAN still be standing on the ground... In this case, you are either Flying (Trip Immune) or Standing/Prone (which may be necessary for certain special abilities, e.g. Dwarven/Earth Elemental Stability), but not both. Flying, either thru Wings OR the Fly Spell, is an ACTIVE skill... If somebody with Fly spell CAST, but standing on the ground, is Tripped (since they aren`t Flying, and are thus susceptible to Trip) the Fly spell doesn`t prevent them from being Tripped because all the Fly spell does is let them make Fly checks - As explained, those are normally done only on ones turn, and the exceptions (damage/violent motion) are for when one is ALREADY FLYING...

By my reading of RAW, somebody with the Fly spell cast upon them, and was Tripped while standing (not Flying), WOULD still need to Stand Up in order to Move and not be subject to Crawling rules (they could Fly within the limitations of the Crawl rules, if they wished, with the Prone Condition persisting until they `Stand Up`). Nothing about the Fly spell suggests you don`t need to make any physical movements at all, the Fly spell`s reliance upon a skill based on both DEX and the full variability of the d20 suggests it provides the POSSIBILITY of at-will zipping around in 3-dimension, but in actual application requires balance and skill, e.g. full range of motion of your body, which Prone doesn`t allow.

[Ravingdork]

I always give my spellcasters overland flight, which I always have up. I hover inches above the ground all creepy like, smug in the knowledge that I am immune to tripping and can take off at any time should danger warrant it.

[Ifusaso]

An extension of this, what if your party is ambushed while you're at camp, laying down, but have some sort of flight still active (either a long duration flight that hasn't worn off or racial flight)?