Ok,
A little background on my world.
I have a northern continent that humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes were mostly chased off of a 1000 years ago. This continent is completely done and mapped, and I have many notes on it. It's a mix of evil and neutral monstrous races, with pockets of good. This is about the size of North America.
I have a southern continent that is heavily developed and explored, and has well established kingdoms of humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes. Many of the survivors of the northern continent fled here and established a story that the northern continent is overrun with evil. This is also about the size of North America.
I have an eastern continent, which is shrouded in a wall of mist in the interior. Civilized races live along the coast and on the outsides of the mountains that form the barriers that hold the mists in. It's an eastern style island, poor in metal, so most armors are lacquered wood or leather. This is a sort of cross between ancient China and Japan. It's about the size of Australia, but like Australia, 90% of the population is on the coastlines. This island is partially mapped, and very few notes (kind of waiting for PFs orient book to come out).
The last bit of major land is an island. This island however floats about 3000 feet above the surface of the world on the jet stream. This island was, 2500 years ago, a capital of strong magic research. It's called Atalantia (yes, my version of Atlantis). The magic however was so heavily used and ended up turning on the arrogant Atalantians. The island was blown up into the sky by the resulting explosion of magic. Most of the inhabitents were warped by the magic, and the island broke into four parts. The main section, a section that was blasted to ash, a smaller section that was mostly brushland, and the last section was grassland and fruit trees. The island is about the size of Japan (all four peices combined). Most of the inhabitants, which are descended from Humans and Halflings, are winged now (thanks to the magic warping their ancestors).
It's this last island I need some help with. This island is the source of most advanced technology. It's a combination of steampunk and psionics. They build skyships, they bind elementals into the ships to power them. They use only tech and psionics, because any magic on the island usually ends badly.
Casting a spell is like asking for battery acid and lemon juice in the same type of flask and then chugging on at random without checking to see what it is. Sometimes you get lemonade, sometimes you throw up blood for six weeks.
So, I am looking for suggestions on the mechanics, probably scaled by spell level. Even a successfully cast spell should have minor side effects (cast an illusion spell of a dragon, and the caster might grow a few scales that he has to yank off painfully for example). I'm also looking for some alternate race replacements for humans and halflings to give them flight (probably full at 5th level, glide before). I have ideas, but I'd like to see what suggestions I get before I post them.
You pretty much need flight living on an island 3000 feet in the air. :) Especially since the major island masses are several miles apart as they float along. Plus there are large chunks that float around as well (think of the floating islands in Avatar).
This is also thousands of years later, 20 or 30 generations. So the descendants are the ones who were best fitted to survive.
As to the tables, yep, that's what I was thinking. I need to work something up in detail, just wanted to see what all suggestions I could get first.
Ok, here are a few ideas for you, hopefully you find some of them useful...
First, anyone casting magic finds that the energies they are trying to use are much more difficult to stay in command of, even as a spell is being cast the energies are constantly fluctuating and threatening to go out of control. As a result, spell casters much succeed at a will save against their own spells DC to cast it successfully. For unsuccessfully cast spells I would consider looking up wild magic charts on the Internet or making your own.
Even if cast “successfully” spells frequently have odd side effects including but not limited to the following:
Abjuration – spells that target individuals tend to alter the color and/or texture of a targets skin is altered for the duration of the effect and often long after. For example, stoneskin usually causes a characters skin to changes to brown or gray and take on the appearance of stone.
Conjuration – creatures summoned by summoning spells are always random and are never under the casters control though they are not necessarily hostile and may be convinced to help the caster.
Divination – detection spells and similar magic are unreliable since the ever-changing fluctuations in magic cause them to detect things incorrectly 1 out of ten times even when cast correctly. For example a the same detect magic spell might fail to detect the aura of a magic item one out of ten times.
Enchantment – all enchantment spells have variable durations, roll a d10 and consult the following chart.
1-3 – half duration
4-7 – normal duration
8-10 – doubled duration
Evocation – all damage caused through evocation magic fluctuates wildly, roll a d10 and consult the following chart.
1-3 – half damage
4-7 – normal damage
8-10 – doubled damage
Illusion – there is a 5% chance that any time an illusion of a creature or object is created it becomes 50% real gaining awareness and effectively an unlimited duration. Such illusions have randomly determined alignments and are not automatically friendly or hostile to the caster. Shadow conjuration magic have a 5% chance of this happening per spell level of the spell.
Necromancy – Undead created are not under the caster control and are not always the type of undead intended. Additionally, each time a caster uses a necromancy spell they take on more characteristics of the dead, such as gaunt or pale skin, sunken eyes, etc. These effects generally fade after a few hours though overuse might result in permanent alterations.
Transmutation – Shape changing spells require that the recipient make a will save against the spells DC each time they change form. If failed the form shifted into is not what was intended.
Stupid forum monster, ate my post, and it was about a page long. That was last night, I got so disgusted, I went to bed.
Here's a rewrite this morning. :)
@revel
I was thinking along the lines of requiring concentration checks to cast any spell, so your suggestion falls in line with that. I think concentration in combat to avoid AoO would have a +5 modifier.
I agree on the random magic effects, and I was thinking something along the lines of the Wild Magic ebb/surge effects from the Wild Mage class.
I like your suggestions a lot for the different effects by school of spell. Very helpful, thanks!
@Phneri
Gonna take these in bits and pieces, you pack a lot into a few sentences. :)
A) Flight for Humans/Halflings : I think there may be a disconnect here, so let me flesh this out. I intend this to be balanced against other core races, because I want the players to (eventually) have the option of taking a character from Atalantia. So, I'm thinking to make the flight capability a racial replacement similar to the APG racial feature changes.
Something like this.
Flight (Human) : As a descendant of the original Atalantians, your ancestry was warped by the wild magic that gave birth to your line. You are born without wings, but they begin to grow out as you mature. By the time you can walk, you have a set of wings capable of limited gliding. These wings are either scaled like a dragons, furred like a bats, or brightly feathered like a birds. Your ability to fly is dependent on your hit die total.
1-4 Hit Die : You are capable of gliding with a speed of 10 ft per hit die, up to 20 feet maximum. Your maneuverability rating is Poor. You lose 1 foot of altitude for each 5 feet moved forward. You may make a DC 15 flight check to gain 5 feet of height on thermals, or a DC 10 flight check to maintain altitude while gliding.
5-8 Hit Die : You are capable of full flight with a Fly speed of 20. Your maneuverability rating is Average.
9+ Hit Die : Your fly speed increases to 30 feet.
This ability replaces the Skilled and Bonus Feat racial benefits humans normally get.
B) PC Going BOOOM if they use magical flight - The island should be mysterious and dangerous. :) They should feel out of their element if they aren't native. Remember, the largest chunk of the floating islands is about 2/3rds the size of Japan, so it's not as if they really have to worry too hard if they stay away from high spots and the edge. However, to get around in the cities, flight makes it much easier. There may be places they have to get assistance to go.
I will usually be starting them off in one of the two major continents. They'll hear tales and legends (some bald face lies) about the eastern continent and floating isles for the first 3-5 levels in game. Then they'll meet people from these places, and perhaps in a few more levels have the opportunity to go to them (but that will be their decision to go, not a required plot thing). But yes, airships, hot air balloons, gliders, and don't forget flying mounts (hipogriffs anyone) will be the norm for them in this environment. I do want the flight balanced out though, as I do want them to have the opportunity to take the races eventually as player races.
See, I'm reading contradictory statements here. So the PCs don't need flight necessarily (from B), but anyone living up there does so they just get wings? How does one not effect the other?
No disconnect.
I don't need to speak Mandarin to visit China, but I sure better learn it if I expect to live there.
There's a difference between 'Able to get by' and 'able to live a normal life'. I never said it wouldn't be a pain in the patukis to not be able to fly on the island. The entire island population can, even the kids (to some extent, as gliding). That means buildings have doorways and landings that aren't necessarily at ground level, there are homes built on chunks of island a mile across that float 2 miles off the coast, and so forth.
So think of 'get by' in the same token you would of someone whose completed basic training in the marines being able to 'get by' in the jungle with a knife, and a fully trained bush ranger spec ops guy who's a specialist in jungle warfare. The former can survive, but he's not a happy camper, and he's struggling. The latter can whip up a meal of tubers and snakes in 30 minutes and spice it to taste good.
Regarding mechanical balance there are very few feats I wouldn't immediately surrender for even the 1-4 HD power you're giving NPCs/PCs there. The upgrades for it later are just gravy. At 1-4 hit dice you've basically got always on featherfall with perks. Later you've got a slightly slower version of overland flight (before you actually get the spell). Those are really, really good abilities.
I'm basing it off races from 3.5 that were +1 ECL, they had substantially the same ability (gliding until 5th hit die). With the PF boost to races making all core races equivalent of 3.5's +1 ECLs, I think it's not too out of balance. Again though, I've had a lot of experience with players who can fly at low levels (half-dragons with glide at 3rd level, flying mounts at 5th level, etc).
From a pure mechanics standpoint I'd expect most of the party to 'trade in' for a winged character. Quickly.
Feat + skill point per level (basically every human racial ability except the floating +2). And you still have issues with encumbrance, etc.
I could see this also causing other issues in staging your game world. Airships I can see, but what use does a race with wings have for gliders?
They don't. But, they do get visitors that don't have wings. And, there are always throwbacks without wings, and a few sub-species that don't have wings and need them (I am thinking of taking the elemental humans from the Bestiary II and having them live on these islands). But mostly they are for the visitors.
How is any combat going to work in this setting, when your martial characters are going to be unable to reach similarly-statted NPCs?
I think you are thinking of a 1st level fighter vs a 1st level gliding rogue perhaps? Even in that situation, the rogue is gliding, so he's dropping and having to make skill checks each round to maintain height. It's not all that different than a melee guy vs an archer on the ground. The archer starts 100 feet from the fighter and fires. Fighter charges toward him, archer moves 30 and fires. Fighter charges, archer moves 30 and fires. If the fighter is in medium or heavy armor, then the archer never gets caught and just shoots until the melee guy is dead. How do you handle that situation? You don't. You get under cover, you get your friendly wizard or sorcerer ally to blast him at range, or you pull out your bow and shoot back. Same applies if you run into a flying enemy. Just look at any creature in the bestiary with flight and think about how your melee guy would handle them.
I think you can get around this and still get the cool factor of dudes with wings by making that one specific subset race (so you can then add in racial hit dice, level adjustments, etc) and stick with the alternates for people living there.A heritage trait that gives everyone in the region the fly skill and the know-how to make/use gliders still gives all of the commoners a significant advantage over PCs who show up, without getting into mechanical problems that may come back to haunt you.
Again, that's just my thought. Anytime I see two different large things happening to the base game mechanics in an area alarm bells start going off in my head, as I've seen it go wrong on both sides of the table. But I'm not you or your players, so what you have might be fine for you game.
I appreciate the posts, don't get me wrong. I guess I just don't see a major issue with it. Then again, I may be spoiled by having run a group of gamers who were very innovative and very clever who were always coming up with novel ways around things, or coming up with novel things to throw at me. :)
Sorry to jump in on a deep conversation but have you considered linking the flying ability as a trait to the region something like
Native of Atalantia: living with the twisted magics of the region you have developed the abilty to manipulte them to a certain extent allowing you to fly at your base land speed when within the extreme magical field. Fly is always a class skill for you.
Sorry to jump in on a deep conversation but have you considered linking the flying ability as a trait to the region something like
Native of Atalantia: living with the twisted magics of the region you have developed the abilty to manipulte them to a certain extent allowing you to fly at your base land speed when within the extreme magical field. Fly is always a class skill for you.
Not at all, wouldn't have posted if I didn't want feed back.
I did consider it, but, that's a really powerful trait. It's basically overland flight (reduced speed) at 1st level, with no inherent cost at all.
What I am considering though is :
Native Atalantia: You grew up on Atalantia, but were not one of the majority of winged natives. As such, you had to work hard to live there, and learned to use gliders and airships early on. You receive a +1 trait bonus to Fly, Knowledge(Engineering) when dealing with gliders, and the Craft(Glider) skill. Choose one of these skills to be a class skill for you.
I had another thought about how to balance flight.
You could do a series of feats the natives can take to enable flight timed with limits so they more or less mimic the mage abilites so
Float
Through practice you have strengthed your wings
Prerequisites: Human or Halfling Native of Atalantia
Benefit: Your vestigial wings are now strong enough to slow your fall acting as a featherfall spell. You can use this ability for a number of rounds equal to your character level plus your constitution bonus per day with no ill effects every round over this requires a fort save dc 10+2x the total number of rounds over the limit to prevent the character from becomming fatigued.
Flight
Your wings continue to grow in strength
Prerequisites: Human or Halfling Native of Atalantia; Float; Character Level 5+
Benefit: Your wings are now strong enough to allow limited true flight gaining a Fly speed of 60 with good manuverability for a number of minutes equal to your character level + con score per day with no ill effects every minute or part thereof over this requires a fort save dc 15+2x the total number of minutes over the limit to prevent the character from becomming fatigued. Taking this feat also doubles the amount of time float can be active for.
True Flight
You are a true Avian
Prerequisites: Human or Halfling Native of Atalantia; Float; Character Level 9+
Benefit: this replaces it's prerequisite feats and grants the character a fly move speed of 60 and good manuverability.
@bertious
Hmm, interesting idea. I'll toy with that. I may make it a combination of feats and racial templates.
A 6th level archer has a fly speed, fly as a class skill (from the heritage), and a ton of dex. He won't be able to fail the check to simply hover and full attack with rapid shot each round, which could be utterly devastating. If your fighter-types aren't specced for bows they're going to be hard pressed to counter this, and the magic will be risky.A bomber alchemist could do some nasty things just dropping alch. fire/bombs/acid flasks from high in the air. He's a bit more vulnerable to return arrow fire, but still stays well out of the way of melee full-attacking him.
Excuse me if i am being naive but isn't that where dm contol and player ingenuity come in? A tanglefoot bag tied to the end of an arrow would be my first thought or a bolas.
Just for fun the party barbarian (there is almost always one these days:P) could hurl the halfling rogue at said archer for a fun and exciting combat.
Other options would be retreat to an enclosed location like a cave or forest where his flight ability is reduced, or find total cover so his arrows are useless.
The archer would certainly be a difficult encounter but i don't think a smart party would be stumped by it.
@phneri
I think we're into the realm of 'Should the GM be a **** or not' at this point. :) I think anything can be inherently unbalanced if the GM is setting things up that way. A sorcerer with fly and a bow can be unstoppable if he's shooting from above and the PCs have no cover because the GM had him attack in the middle of a desert plain.