Now we're starting a new campaign with only three players, one has made a cavalier, one makes an alchemist and I chose to try a bowman guy so I thought what better than Ranger/wiz/aa.
But the more I read about AA builds people don't seem to like ranger/wiz/aa or they say pure ranger is simply better so could someone clarify what might actually be the ''best'' ranged weapon using choice?
Will I get good damage with a pure ranger using +2 composite longbow? Or will the AA be better in the end?
We got 25 point buy and am thinking of these stats for the ranger:
str:14,dex:18,con:10,wis:14,int:16,cha:8 (elf stats included)
Thanks for reading the post and hopefully replying.
I would go with a ranger if you just want damage. What you are trying to do with build will determine what class(es) you should use.
I would go with a ranger if you just want damage. What you are trying to do with build will determine what class(es) you should use.
Well I'm mostly curious about the damage output but I favor Ranger over Fighter since lots of more skill points which IMO makes it easier to do stuff outside combat and well I like ranger RP a lot more.
Just about the Ranger Build and damage output does it outdo the arcane archer or not?
I would go with a ranger if you just want damage. What you are trying to do with build will determine what class(es) you should use.Well I'm mostly curious about the damage output but I favor Ranger over Fighter since lots of more skill points which IMO makes it easier to do stuff outside combat and well I like ranger RP a lot more.
Just about the Ranger Build and damage output does it outdo the arcane archer or not?
Yes it does. I would suggest the guide variant from the APG also. I actually used one in a PbP fight, 20 point buy.
+14/+14/+14/+9 to hit at level 6
2d8+24 Manyshot
1d8+12 Rapid shot
1d8+12 Haste potion
1d8+12 Last shoot
The haste wont always be availible, but 48+4d8 is still not bad.
The 48 may drop down to also, but you will still do more damage than an arcane archer, and you won't to rely on spells as much. If the alchemist can hook you up with haste you are more than good to go. Even if not you will put out good damage.
PS: The example above was fully buff, but it is not bad even when not fully buffed.
I would go with a ranger if you just want damage. What you are trying to do with build will determine what class(es) you should use.Well I'm mostly curious about the damage output but I favor Ranger over Fighter since lots of more skill points which IMO makes it easier to do stuff outside combat and well I like ranger RP a lot more.
Just about the Ranger Build and damage output does it outdo the arcane archer or not?Yes it does. I would suggest the guide variant from the APG also. I actually used one in a PbP fight, 20 point buy.
+14/+14/+14/+9 to hit at level 6
2d8+24 Manyshot
1d8+12 Rapid shot
1d8+12 Haste potion
1d8+12 Last shootThe haste wont always be availible, but 48+4d8 is still not bad.
The 48 may drop down to also, but you will still do more damage than an arcane archer, and you won't to rely on spells as much. If the alchemist can hook you up with haste you are more than good to go. Even if not you will put out good damage.PS: The example above was fully buff, but it is not bad even when not fully buffed.
Guide variant and PbP fight? we got 25 point buy.
Guide variant and PbP fight? we got 25 point buy.I would go with a ranger if you just want damage. What you are trying to do with build will determine what class(es) you should use.Well I'm mostly curious about the damage output but I favor Ranger over Fighter since lots of more skill points which IMO makes it easier to do stuff outside combat and well I like ranger RP a lot more.
Just about the Ranger Build and damage output does it outdo the arcane archer or not?Yes it does. I would suggest the guide variant from the APG also. I actually used one in a PbP fight, 20 point buy.
+14/+14/+14/+9 to hit at level 6
2d8+24 Manyshot
1d8+12 Rapid shot
1d8+12 Haste potion
1d8+12 Last shootThe haste wont always be availible, but 48+4d8 is still not bad.
The 48 may drop down to also, but you will still do more damage than an arcane archer, and you won't to rely on spells as much. If the alchemist can hook you up with haste you are more than good to go. Even if not you will put out good damage.PS: The example above was fully buff, but it is not bad even when not fully buffed.
You should do well.
I mean what Guide Variant from APG? Skirmisher or?
Also how do you get the ''+14/+14/+14/+9 to hit at level 6''? Would you be kind and explain what stacks to that?
I mean what Guide Variant from APG? Skirmisher or?
Also how do you get the ''+14/+14/+14/+9 to hit at level 6''? Would you be kind and explain what stacks to that?
There is a ranger archetype called "Guide", whose big thing is to determine favored enemy on the spot. Excellent for 1 encounter/day type scenarios, so great in Kingmaker, where you travel your t&!& off, not so great in a game that sends lots of the same-y enemies.
Also, would take Improved Precise Shot at 6, and manyshot at 7, unless your GM doesn't use spellcasters or terrain. You qualify for Manyshot at 7, IPS at 11 if you do not take it at 6. And trust me, when the other people are tearing their hair out when the GM is trollfacing you with his 20-50% miss chance, improved cover and gods know what mooks, you will be delivering a steady stream of "Oh no you don't!" to their faces.
I mean what Guide Variant from APG? Skirmisher or?
Also how do you get the ''+14/+14/+14/+9 to hit at level 6''? Would you be kind and explain what stacks to that?There is a ranger archetype called "Guide", whose big thing is to determine favored enemy on the spot. Excellent for 1 encounter/day type scenarios, so great in Kingmaker, where you travel your t~!~ off, not so great in a game that sends lots of the same-y enemies.
Also, would take Improved Precise Shot at 6, and manyshot at 7, unless your GM doesn't use spellcasters or terrain. You qualify for Manyshot at 7, IPS at 11 if you do not take it at 6. And trust me, when the other people are tearing their hair out when the GM is trollfacing you with his 20-50% miss chance, improved cover and gods know what mooks, you will be delivering a steady stream of "Oh no you don't!" to their faces.
Alright =) that clarifies it, we're starting at level 3 and well 25 point buy and it's an epic fantasy world very heavy on magic.
So pure ranger it is?
Unless you have your heart set on elf i'd suggest human
Human Ranger
Str 14
Dex 18 +2 race
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 08
Level 1 Point Blank Shot, Deadly Aim
Ranger 2 Rapid Shot
Level 3 Precise Shot
So with a masterwork Strength adjusted bow you have +8 to hit 1d8+2 damage
or +5/+5 1d8+4 with deadly aim and rapid shot
With Traits you can add heirloom weapon for +1 to hit but some dm's don't allow it
and to continue
Level 5 Nimble Moves (incase your dm likes using difficult terrain)or Quickdraw
Ranger 6 Improved Precise shot
Level 7 Manyshot
now with the same bow +12/+6 2d8+4/1d8+2
or +8/+8/+3 2d8+12/1d8+6/1d8+6 with deadly aim and rapid shot
gravity bow the level 1 ranger spell changes damage to 4d6+12/2d6+6/2d6+6
Unless you have your heart set on elf i'd suggest human
Human Ranger
Str 14
Dex 18 +2 race
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 08Level 1 Point Blank Shot, Deadly Aim
Ranger 2 Rapid Shot
Level 3 Precise ShotSo with a masterwork Strength adjusted bow you have +8 to hit 1d8+2 damage
or +5/+5 1d8+4 with deadly aim and rapid shot
With Traits you can add heirloom weapon for +1 to hit but some dm's don't allow it
and to continue
Level 5 Nimble Moves (incase your dm likes using difficult terrain)or Quickdraw
Ranger 6 Improved Precise shot
Level 7 Manyshot
now with the same bow +12/+6 2d8+4/1d8+2or +8/+8/+3 2d8+12/1d8+6/1d8+6 with deadly aim and rapid shot
gravity bow the level 1 ranger spell changes damage to 4d6+12/2d6+6/2d6+6
Alright, maybe I'll go for human, not sure yet of the elf, might be elf I just like the 4 hour sleep + low light vision but yeah spells can repair the vision. The +1 feat is always good which Human's get and it's somewhat luring but I'll decide that later.
But main point thanks for putting out the leveling choice of feats :) and the other help.
Anyone else if has ideas for different kinds of ranger builds, please do post.
There are probably better builds than mine on the way :) as to the sleep thing a ring of sustancance for 2.5k is a good choice.
There are probably better builds than mine on the way :) as to the sleep thing a ring of sustancance for 2.5k is a good choice.
Btw what's the 2d8+4 dmg? 1d8 weapon with gravity bow is 2d6?
There are probably better builds than mine on the way :) as to the sleep thing a ring of sustancance for 2.5k is a good choice.Btw what's the 2d8+4 dmg? 1d8 weapon with gravity bow is 2d6?
Manyshot does 2 hits with one attack roll i.e a single shot does 1d8+2 so a double is 2d8+4 but applies crits, sneak attacks, and such things as if its one attack.
Yeah sorry didn't read it well enough, you posted 4d6 with gravity bow ofc.
I would go single class ranger, yes. Full BAB and focus on physical stats is the best way to go for a steady incline in damage so that you might still be able to take down nasty stuff rather fast. Some people might balk at the sheer damage output, but a ranger is a PURE offense class, a so-called "striker", and dealing damage is his main job. At lv6 you have eliminated the need for a seeking enchantment, which is very nice.
As for the human or elf question, I say it is a toss-up. An elf is more perceptive, got low-light vision and need less sleep. A human has more con (of an importance which cannot be overstated), an extra feat and more skills.
I would likely say human, and use something similar to Bertious' build:
S14, D18, C14, I10, W14, Ch8 (racial bonuses included). You get 7 skill points per level, so you do not need a bonus to INT. Wis is more important; Will saves, perception, spells, survival etc.
Heirloom weapon trait is good if there is a caster who plans on taking Craft Magic Arms and Armor, otherwise it is useless beyond level 2. I would rather have Reactionary or a trait that gives Acrobatics.
As for feats:
1-3: Deadly Aim, Point Blank-, Precise- and Rapid-Shot.
5: Weapon Focus (Longbow) (Nimble Steps is good, but you get Woodland stride, which covers half the reason to get this feat, and Point Blank Mastery eliminates the need to 5-foot step ever again)
6: Improved Precise Shot
7: Manyshot
9: Improved Critical (Longbow)
10: Point Blank Mastery
From here on, it's mostly gravy. You can now shoot in melee, ignore anything less than total cover and total concealment, you do buckets of damage, and life is good.
I mean what Guide Variant from APG? Skirmisher or?
Also how do you get the ''+14/+14/+14/+9 to hit at level 6''? Would you be kind and explain what stacks to that?
Sorry I went to bed.
BAB 6 gives you 2 attacks.
I got on extra attack from rapid shot, and another one from haste for a total of 4 attacks.
I will just make a link Archy the Archer. If there is anything you don't get let me know.
It's a terrible thing to do, but if your GM allows Sword of the Arcane Order from 3.5 (FRCS) you can turn your ranger spells into wizard spells and get into AA early. The problem with that is the APG ranger spell list is unspeakably cool, so you might be gimping yourself from straight ranger. It's hilarious saying that since SotAO was one of the keystones of dirty 3.5 archer builds.
I think the Splitting enhancement was pretty bad also. Every should shot split in 2. It is one of the few things I ban from my games.
Now we're starting a new campaign with only three players, one has made a cavalier, one makes an alchemist and I chose to try a bowman guy so I thought what better than Ranger/wiz/aa.
But the more I read about AA builds people don't seem to like ranger/wiz/aa or they say pure ranger is simply better so could someone clarify what might actually be the ''best'' ranged weapon using choice?Will I get good damage with a pure ranger using +2 composite longbow? Or will the AA be better in the end?
We got 25 point buy and am thinking of these stats for the ranger:
str:14,dex:18,con:10,wis:14,int:16,cha:8 (elf stats included)Thanks for reading the post and hopefully replying.
I agree with wraithstrike that if you want pure damage-go ranger. Throwing in wizard/AA will make you more versatile but do less damage overall.
Most of the people(2 of my players included) that have issues with this build path site the Arcane Archer as the problem. It's powers are fairly weak by the time you get to a level where you can take the prestige class.
The fact that they can add a bonus to their arrows is already overshadowed by magic items they have at that point.
What we have done as a solution is to have the AA's ability work more like the Magus and the bonus that class can add to weapons. The added +1's the AA gets can STACK with magic weapons this way making them much more viable.
What we have done as a solution is to have the AA's ability work more like the Magus and the bonus that class can add to weapons. The added +1's the AA gets can STACK with magic weapons this way making them much more viable.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have a bow enchanted +2 and with flaming, wouldn't that transfer over to mundane arrows you shot? And because the arrows are mundane to begin with, the AA could add a different damage type via ability? Or do you need to use houserules to accomplish this?
Just in case you want it:
Ranger 6/Wizard 2/Arcane Archer 4/Eldritch Knight 8
You'll get that early level ranger damage and later level versatility of some decent arcane magic to go with your damage.
Just in case you want it:
Ranger 6/Wizard 2/Arcane Archer 4/Eldritch Knight 8
You'll get that early level ranger damage and later level versatility of some decent arcane magic to go with your damage.
The one i'm playing atm is going to be Ranger(guide)1 Wizard(transmuter)5 Eldrich Knight 5 Arcane Archer 9 for 15th level mage ability and bab of 17
Although atm he is only an Elven ranger 1 wizard 2 he is in a rolled stats game with exceptionally high stats.
Str 14 (+2), Dex 19 (+4)[20 (+5)], Con 13 (+1), Int 18 (+4), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 13 (+1) :D
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have a bow enchanted +2 and with flaming, wouldn't that transfer over to mundane arrows you shot? And because the arrows are mundane to begin with, the AA could add a different damage type via ability? Or do you need to use houserules to accomplish this?
What we have done as a solution is to have the AA's ability work more like the Magus and the bonus that class can add to weapons. The added +1's the AA gets can STACK with magic weapons this way making them much more viable.
You have it right: bow abilities/bonuses apply to all ammunition fired and overlap with any ammunition abilities/bonuses. The arcane archer can choose to have all their non-magical ammunition to act as +1 (elemental/elemental burst/aligned) when preparing spells for the day (or after 8 hours rest for spontaneous casters).
The straight ranger can outdamage the arcane archer in most situations, but where the arcane archer can shine is combining damage with status effects. A ranger 6/wizard 1/arcane archer 2 has +8 BAB instead of +9, but can shoot an arrow that does damage to a target AND activates a color spray effect at the point of impact (technically, since the Imbue Arrow ability doesn't specify it has to be an an arcane area spell, you could argue that you could imbue an arrow with entangle). At arcane archer 3, that effect could be fog cloud, glitterdust, or web. Then there are the special abilities like Seeker Arrow, Phase Arrow, and Hail of Arrows.
Yes it does. I would suggest the guide variant from the APG also. I actually used one in a PbP fight, 20 point buy.The guide variant seems like a pretty sweet setup if you just have a few encounters per day.
It also works if the DM won't help you out picking favored enemies. Even without the focus the ranger does decent damage. I use mine like a paladin does smites, saving them for boss fights if I can.
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It also works if the DM won't help you out picking favored enemies. Even without the focus the ranger does decent damage. I use mine like a paladin does smites, saving them for boss fights if I can.Yes it does. I would suggest the guide variant from the APG also. I actually used one in a PbP fight, 20 point buy.The guide variant seems like a pretty sweet setup if you just have a few encounters per day.
It's funny, I was just putting together a ranger for our Kingmaker game and wanted something without an Animal Companion but the more I look at it the more I like the guide overall. In fact since we only have one or two encounters most days, this is going to be particularly shiny.
I agree, if you don't know what's coming up in your campaign or if it's eclectic it's a great choice.
Guide is really good for that and the ability to buff the party in your favored terrain is just gravy.
For those with normal favored enemy i fond at low levels animals and humans are generaly a good choice.
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Like, sounds like the party can use a Wizard in general; the ranger is the best archer, but the Eldrich Knight may give you diversity. It is Fighter/Wizard, and best served as a transmuter. Also, Arcane Archer sadly does worse than EK at his own trick :(.
Fighter 1/Transmuter 5/EK X
Str: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 11
Dex: 19
Con: 12
Chr: 7
(Transmuter bonus to Dex till you get a dex belt, then Str).
Feats: PBS, Precise
3: Rapid
5: Deadly Aim
6: Craft arms/armor if legal
7: WF, whatever
Advantage is at 9 you weapon specialize, and can really serve to buff party/self and hinder foes. Also,all your bow feats will help with rays. Drawback is you will not be as good an archer; YMMV, but it is a strong build alternative.
I would definitely think pure ranger or just be a fighter take all the crossbow feats and take the crossbow mastery feat from the curse of the crimson throne players guide and pick up a double crossbow... sure you take a penalty to attack but you fire once shoot twice and get all the benefits of rapidshot and can make a full round attack basically doubling your damage. Well according to how the feat is worded.