A quick scenario that asks a question..
Cask O' Brandy
"Help us" cried Brother Tucker as he approached your group of adventurers, "We've got to get our erm.. cargo to next town over for the festival, but are worried about ahh.. bandits!" You all shout, "Of course!"
Group of 3rd level PCs, Human Fighter, Gnome Cleric, 1/2 Elf Wizard, and a Hobbit Thief, with a standard fantasy class stat mix.
You all are walking next to a cart hauling a large cask of brandy pulled by a mule with a teamster. SUPRISE! From behind a large boulder a huge net is flung.. ouch, a great toss, the whole group is caught. With a whoop an Ogre jumps down and stuffs you all in a large sack and proceeds to smack you against the boulder until there's no more movement.
The four of you wake up, bruised but okay, in a dark locked cupboard to the sound of snoring. Through a crack you can see the ogre with it's feet up on the cask, and its head thrown back snoring loudly with assorted gnawed bones around him. You see your gear on a nitch over his head. After the thief jimmies the crude lock open, you make it into the room, where you see the Ogre's belt and gear against the wall. The large weapons include a Great Club (for smushing big stuff), a Club (for smushing little stuff), and two daggers (for eating smushed stuff). You also see against the wall in the corner, the remains of two swatted pixies, one with a tiny Greatsword, the other with a tiny Longsword, each also has a tiny dagger.
Listen check reveals scratching sounds coming closer... hope you've got your weapons picked out.. two dire weasels shoot into the room attracted by the sounds of the breakout.
Optimal picks can be determined out of the Core Rulebook, with what is possible, attack mods and damage done per weapon per PC, without further clarification by the DM. Right? So what so you get?
This is the breakdown.
Characters:
Medium fighter: BAB +3, Str 17 (+3)
Medium wizard: BAB +1, Str 8(-1)
Small cleric: BAB +2, Str 11 (+0)
Small rogue: BAB +2, Str 12 (+1)
Weapons:
Large Great Club: dmg = 2d8
Large Club: dmg = 1d8
Large dagger (2): dmg = 1d6
Tiny Greatsword: dmg = 1d8
Tiny Longsword: dmg = 1d4
Tiny dagger (2): dmg = 1d2
Though pixies are small-sized I assume you meant the weapons to be sized for tiny creatures since you explicitly listed them as tiny.
Medium fighter: BAB +3, Str 17 (+3)
Large Great Club: Cannot wield due to size.
Large Club: Attack +4, dmg = 1d8+4 (two-handed).
Large dagger: Attack +4, dmg = 1d6+3.
Tiny Greatsword: Attack +2, dmg = 1d8+3.
Tiny Longsword: Cannot wield due to size.
Tiny dagger: Cannot wield due to size.
Medium wizard: BAB +1, Str 8(-1)
Large Great Club: Cannot wield due to size.
Large Club: Attack -6, dmg = 1d8-1(two-handed).
Large dagger: Attack -2, dmg = 1d6-1
Tiny Greatsword: Attack -6, dmg = 1d8-1
Tiny Longsword: Cannot wield due to size.
Tiny dagger: Cannot wield due to size.
Small cleric: BAB +2, Str 11 (+0)
Large Great Club: Cannot wield due to size.
Large Club: Cannot wield due to size.
Large dagger: Attack 0, dmg = 1d6
Tiny Greatsword: Attack -4, dmg = 1d8 (one-handed).
Tiny Longsword: Attack -4, dmg = 1d4
Tiny dagger: Cannot wield due to size.
Small rogue: BAB +2, Str 12 (+1)
Large Great Club: Cannot wield due to size.
Large Club: Cannot wield due to size.
Large dagger: Attack +1, dmg = 1d6+1
Tiny Greatsword: Attack -3, dmg = 1d8+1
Tiny Longsword: Attack -3, dmg = 1d4+1
Tiny dagger: Cannot wield due to size.
I have bolded the weapon given to each character.
I have italized the weapon best suited for each character.
Medium fighter: Large Club: Attack +4, dmg = 1d8+4 (two-handed).
Medium wizard: Tiny Greatsword: Attack -6, dmg = 1d8-1
Small cleric: Large dagger: Attack 0, dmg = 1d6
Small rogue: Large dagger: Attack +1, dmg = 1d6+1
Only Base Attack Bonus, Strength modifiers, weapon size and proficiency has been factored into this breakdown.
Feats such as weapon focus, weapon finesse and additional weapon proficiency, and two-weapon fighting might change the breakdown.
Thank you for the excellent breakdown. You're right, I did mean to pick a tiny fey instead of the small sized pixies. The large greatclub and tiny daggers were realistically put in just to be out of range. The character breakdown is fine and starts the baseline for the discussion. No surprises with the off-size weapon damage.
This does help focus on an area that I'm more iffy about. I guess its in the weapon classification and proficiency areas.
The wizard is only proficient with (from these choices) the dagger, and only gets a -2 from the size shift. The club stacks the -2 with the -4 non-proficiency. I think I get it. With the tiny greatsword I was tempted to apply just a -4 because of the two size shifts and no other, to be treated as a dagger. How did you get -6?
I'm not as sure how you got the weapon attack modifiers for the fighter; if you could break that down please. I understand the damage modifiers okay.
Likewise for the small cleric, I'd of thought a -4 mod for the large dagger, with -6 (-2 + -4 for size and proficiency) on the tiny great sword or longsword. Again, a case could be made for a -2 on the tiny longsword if treated as a dagger (think about those letter-openers that are shaped like swords).
And the small rogue. Two shifts on the large dagger (-4).. I'm not getting your attack bonuses. Tiny weapons too here please.
Not getting into the math because I'm lazy.
A tiny Greatsword is still a martial weapon, so non-proficiency penalties still apply. Also, at 2 lbs. it would be closer to a short sword than a dagger but balanced differently, with a much smaller hilt.
The differences between weapon sizes, I thought was better explained in 3.0. A Greatsword was a large weapon, a longsword was a medium weapon, a short sword was a small weapon, and a dagger was a tiny weapon.
So a diminutive creature could wield a dagger sized for a human as two-handed weapon.
There were many things wrong with this system, and I'm glad for the change, but I do miss the fourth weapon category, as small as it was.
This is how the attack modifiers are calculated.
Medium fighter: BAB +3, Str 17 (+3)
Large Club: Attack +4 (BAB +3, Str +3, inappropiate size -2).
Large dagger: Attack +4 (BAB +3, Str +3, inappropiate size -2).
Tiny Greatsword: Attack +2 (BAB +3, Str +3, inappropiate size -4).
Medium wizard: BAB +1, Str 8(-1)
Large Club: Attack -6 (BAB +1, Str -1, inappropiate size -2, non-proficiency -4).
Large dagger: Attack -2 (BAB +1, Str -1, inappropiate size -2).
Tiny Greatsword: Attack -8 (BAB +1, Str -1, inappropiate size -4, non-proficiency -4).
Small cleric: BAB +2, Str 11 (+0)
Large dagger: Attack -2 (BAB +2, Str +0, inappropiate size -4).
Tiny Greatsword: Attack -4 (BAB +2, Str +0, inappropiate size -2, non-proficiency -4).
Tiny Longsword: Attack -4 (BAB +2, Str +0, inappropiate size -2, non-proficiency -4).
Small rogue: BAB +2, Str 12 (+1)
Large dagger: Attack -1 (BAB +2, Str +1, inappropiate size -4).
Tiny Greatsword: Attack -3 (BAB +2, Str +1, inappropiate size -2, non-proficiency -4).
Tiny Longsword: Attack -3 (BAB +2, Str +1, inappropiate size -2, non-proficiency -4).
Bolded entries are corrections. I initially failed to modify for size correctly.
Thank you. And finally during the battle it turns out that there is drudic markings on the large club, it is a (+3) weapon, and what looked like a tiny longsword was actually a (tiny) sun blade (dmg=1d6+2/+4) which you realize can be wielded like a (tiny) short-sword by the Rogue (ng) without the -4 non-proficiency.
Fighter
Large Club: Attack +7 (BAB +3, Str +3, +3, inappropiate size -2).
dmg = 1d8+7 (two-handed)
Rogue
Tiny Sunblade: Attack +3 (BAB +2, Str +1,+2, inappropiate size -2).
dmg = 1d6+3/+5
After the battles and getting free, and that they wish to keep and use these items, is there any particular feat that would address the -2 inappropriate size issue, as magic is very rare? And perhaps move the necessary 2-handedness of the large club back to one handed? Or would they just have to live with it.
Thank you. And finally during the battle it turns out that there is drudic markings on the large club, it is a (+3) weapon, and what looked like a tiny longsword was actually a (tiny) sun blade (dmg=1d6+2/+4) which you realize can be wielded like a (tiny) short-sword by the Rogue (ng) without the -4 non-proficiency.
Fighter
Large Club: Attack +7 (BAB +3, Str +3, +3, inappropiate size -2).
dmg = 1d8+7 (two-handed)Rogue
Tiny Sunblade: Attack +3 (BAB +2, Str +1,+2, inappropiate size -2).
dmg = 1d6+3/+5After the battles and getting free, and that they wish to keep and use these items, is there any particular feat that would address the -2 inappropriate size issue, as magic is very rare? And perhaps move the necessary 2-handedness of the large club back to one handed? Or would they just have to live with it.
I'd say let them take Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Large Club] (or Tiny Longsword) to eliminate the penalty
After the battles and getting free, and that they wish to keep and use these items, is there any particular feat that would address the -2 inappropriate size issue, as magic is very rare? And perhaps move the necessary 2-handedness of the large club back to one handed? Or would they just have to live with it.
The only feat I remember that has anything to do with these issues is Monkey Grip from 3.5 Complete Warrior. It would not remove the size penalty but would allow the fighter to wield the large club in one hand.