Basically getting those 100-1000lbs of gold may seem fantastical, but in reality that is an average of 17500gp. Half of that if you rule rawmaterials are only half as good as finished goods, ie gold coins.
Youth potion isnt that much better.
In short, far from a wondorous magical treasure of legend.
Now.. those effects come from basically breaking the stone.
What about spells that employ the philosophers stone as a focus?
Something like lvl 4 spell, create 1/3 of caster level in lbs of gold. Grand wizard, lvl 20, would be some 6lbs or 300gp/spell. Not Superrich, but a way to handle taxes, pay for a few beers and such.
Halt Aging, level 7. No aging for a month. Multiple castings will just resent the timer of no aging.
Or Purity of the Soul 9. Become Good, immortal (as in never aging) and aquire the saint template (book of excalted deeds). Also costs 50.000gp.
-caveat, if the philosophers stone you used for this mighty ritual (takes a month to do) is broken, you die instantly.
You don't see the ability to continually cast a spell that grants gold to be an issue? Sure, it's not much, but cast using every slot that could hold it (which is anything 4th level & up), and adding a ring of Wizardry IV, you could end up with what would essentially be a money tree- and you wouldn't even have to do the scary stuff like binding demons or haggling with vendors.
A 20th level wizard, using every spell from 4th to 9th to prepare & cast this spell, assuming he could also fill his specialization slot with it (and ignoring bonus spells from intelligence) would have 34 slots per day, or 38 with a ring of wizardry. That generates 11.4k gold per day, which could then be transformed into actual currency with a simple Fabricate spell. A wizard with any down time at all could generate a great deal of money simply by "blue booking" the whole thing.
I think the best result would be something like being able to generate 1000gp per week/month. It's not amazing at that level, but it's awesome flavor.
The ultimate goal of the philospher's stone wasn't the transmutation of base metals into gold. It was immortality.
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I'd just like to note that there is no markdown on the gold->gold coins transition. If you look at the price of goods it lists raw copper, gold, platinum and silver prices by the pound. A pound is 50 coins. Not surprisingly, a pound of copper is worth 5sp (or 50cp), a pound of silver is worth 5gp (or 50s), a pound of gold is worth 5p (or 50g) and a pound of plat is worth 50p.
Stamping them into coins just makes the trade a little easier (counting is easier than weighing) and makes the country feel good about itself (or, more accurately, the ruler whose head is stamped on the coin).
The ultimate goal of the philospher's stone wasn't the transmutation of base metals into gold. It was immortality.
This the process... nay journey to making a philospher's stone was more of a spiritual one... as such with the "enlightenment" that is supposed to come with making one comes a bit of the "transcend base concerns like wealth".
Of course the level 20 alchemist ignores this fairly substantially but still.
Also the philospher's stone was supposed to have a lot more abilities than just the immortality and transforming base metals to less base metals.
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I prefer the Full Metal Alchemist interpretation of the Philosopher's Stone, myself. At least as far as recent renditions go. It basically was the omnipotent stone that could do anything, yet had a terrible price associated with it to justify it being rare/scorned.
I'd probably allow someone in my games to treat the philospher's stone as a replacement material component or focus for any spell, with a limited "value" based on the amount of gold it's allowed to make.
Then, I'd let them make seemingly unlimited versions that could only be made using mass quantities of human souls. I'd also make this be the only commonly known method of their creation. That'll make them think twice about bragging about their new toy ;)
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I'd make two changes to the above: For one, it isn't done in units of souls but rather GP, with each soul worth a lot more (~30k). The number of souls is always equal to the value divided by 30k.
For two, it breaks at exactly 0, but not before, and that last act (with insufficient funds) sponges off of your own soul, reducing your life span. If this would mean you'd be dead, then you are and you disappear entirely. The stone breaks when it hits the ground after your death. This only works when there are no true immortals, though. Maybe it works differently from them (robs them of immortality?)
Sean, point taken. A limit for what an individual stone can produce in a month, until its sort empty until the next fullmoon or some such :p
@Abraham, then do enlighten us. Those were the 3 ive come across. Basically wealth, immortality and transformation of the soul into something purer and gooder & accompaning bodily perfection (thus the saint template).
A bit of searching,
"Such were the mystical powers of the Philosopher's Stone that anyone fortunate enough to own one was said to be ensured of good health, perpetual youth, success in love, wealth beyond his dreams and good luck in every undertaking. One noted alchemists, Albert Magnus (1206-1280), claimed that his magical Philosopher's Stone could create summer or winter in his garden at his command." http://www.townshipofthenorthshore.ca/features/philosophersstone.html
Wikipedia mentioned "oneness of humanity", now that would perhaps be the purity of soul, but several people being united thru the same stone. Thus surely linking all their lives together. Hivemind/telepathy shared between all perfected by the same stone?
The luck, love & success is easily enough done thru a luckstone effect of some power.
Weathercontrol, well.. Fairly sure we dont want to go into the "deathstone" effect wherein the deathstone holder gets a virtual necromancer level for each level of the owner, but transmuter in this case, but sure would ease things. And allow a anyone to use it.
Sean, point taken. A limit for what an individual stone can produce in a month, until its sort empty until the next fullmoon or some such :p
@Abraham, then do enlighten us. Those were the 3 ive come across. Basically wealth, immortality and transformation of the soul into something purer and gooder.
Those are of course the major three, the others were side effect sort of stuff based off of the big three: Neutralize any poison when the stone is dipped in it, drive the unworthy user insane (basically if you stole someone's stone and were going to use it to make gold the fumes and process would "poison" you in pathfinder rules), it could be used for other sorts of transformations as well. I believe there are a few other small powers that have been attributed to it but I would have to go do some refreshing of the memories to remember what all else.
Forgive me, I'm not intending to threadjack, but this seems like the perfect thread to speculate on other powers and make up good alternatives.
by all means ;)
So which philospher's stone are we talking about ??
Minor ??
Major ??
Cleric version ??
Wizard Version ??
As statted up, the Philosopher's Stone can turn lead into gold, iron into silver, and also be used to brew up a no-fail elixir of true resurrection. That's all pretty potent. Maybe not for incredibly high level characters, but if you're a high level alchemist, it's a heck of a nice perk to get a number these free a year.
Brewing them up into old-fashioned youth potions is also perfectly reasonable, and even in keeping with the folklore.
That said, if you want to make more gold, the solution is to use more philosopher's stones, rather than complaining that a rock that turns a lead bathtub into gold isn't affecting enough volume to count as an artifact.
I have been working on Philosopher's Stone that works kind of like Mata magic rods, the alchemist could use them as part of the extract creation process to add mata magic like ability. I think that sorta fits in with the myths as well.
Disclaimer : ""and it two late tonight for me to figure it up...all i do know is cost would start at"" past my bed time, and to tire to look up all the rules.
The point i was trying to make is that both version are very expensive, and i very much doubt an GM would let the Wizard version stay in the game world for very long.... even if made by a player character. The cleric version i have less of a problem with, due to it effecting only one person.
.....
I could see makeing the stone, with current magic rules, As a Wondrous item.
Only problem is it will cost a fortune.
Cleric version = 1/day use = You do not age this day. Spell required: Raise Dead. Cost = Very expensive, and it two late tonight for me to figure it up...all i do know is cost would start at:
Sale Price : Cost + 250,000 gp added on
Creation cost: 1/2 cost + 250,000 gp added on.
Wizard version = 1/day use = 100 cu feet (object) or one creature = Both object and creature get a Fortitude save to negate... so there is alway a chance it does not work ever day. Spell requires: Wish Spell.....using a wish spell to do Polymorph any Object effect at base level (no + per level), amount and overriding the restriction on not able to change base metals in polymorph any object.
Sale Price : Cost + 1,250,000 gp added on.
Creation Cost: 1/2 cost + 1,250,000 gp added on.
...
The Cleric version might be obtainable for purchase at high levels 18-20, but the wizard version would be Epic level of gold way past 20th level.
Esther way it will cost a fortune to make. Require high level spells. And once made, if anyone finds out you have the item, every nation, city, adventure, demon, devil, angel, and crack pot will be after you to steal it away from you any way possible.
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I have a fancy formula I like to apply to the above:
if (cost > ~250,000gp)
{
item.category = ARTIFACT;
}
Creation cost: Any number of sentient souls. 1.2 million recommended.
Uses: Pretty much a fix for anything. Die? Instantly regenerate in place for one soul. Need material components? Use some soul energy. Don't feel like chicken? Make burgers with the power of human souls!
Destruction: Can only be destroyed by using its power.
I have a fancy formula I like to apply to the above:
if (cost > ~250,000gp)
{
item.category = ARTIFACT;
}
That is one way to do it. But i have had a long standing rule in all my games.
If the players can not do it, neither can the DM. If the DM can Do it, so can the players.
Artifacts, by definition can not be created by the players, and are there for not allowed in my games.
Epic magic items that could be created by players, that might require a government to fund, are allowed in my games.
I remember putting out a philosophers stone in 3.5... not very spectacular.
The party basically treated it like a glorified potion of true res.
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I have a fancy formula I like to apply to the above:
if (cost > ~250,000gp)
{
item.category = ARTIFACT;
}
That is one way to do it. But i have had a long standing rule in all my games.
If the players can not do it, neither can the DM. If the DM can Do it, so can the players.
Artifacts, by definition can not be created by the players, and are there for not allowed in my games.
Epic magic items that could be created by players, that might require a government to fund, are allowed in my games.
I just read the Artifact section again to be sure (the blurb at the beginning at least), and it never says that players cannot make them. No mechanic is given to do so, but it never says that they can't.
Artifacts can be great for a game *if* they're the focus of the story in some fashion. In any other case they're more likely to be a nuisance.
Heck, making such an artifact would be a quest in itself. Gathering materials, defending its construction from those who have something to lose, diplomacy with the representatives of gods who're trying to tell you to not to make it. The possibilities are endless!
Artifacts, by definition can not be created by the players, and are there for not allowed in my games.
Then you cannot run Kingmaker