Catfolk in Greyhawk

[Eduardo Godinez]

To all Greyhawk sages out there:

I'd like to introduce the catfolk from Races of the Wild in my Greyhawk campaign, and I'm trying to find them a place in the world. The idea is to integrate them into the world setting, in a place just off the "common" world, as to make them available yet rare. Since the Savage Tide campaign set a precedent with the rakasta of the Island of Dread, I was planning in starting from there. Even though they are extinct in the IoD, I was thinking of perhaps placing some surviving tribes in the depths of the Amedio Jungle, perhaps living alongside the remnants of Olman civilization there, and worshipping the Olman/Aztec pantheon. Thoughts and feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[W E Ray]

If I recall Rakasta first were published in Castle Amber and Isle of Dread -- but a number of old mods from '80 - '82 had them and I think David Howery even included him in his "Leopardmen"/ "Land of Men with Tails" adventures.

I would have no problem putting Rakasta all over Oerth in the places where you think they can help your Campaign. They've been there all along, just haven't shown up in the campaign.

What always troubled me was the Litorian (Monte Cook). I mean, heck, I like the Litorian but you don't need two cat-people -- unless you make a distinct racial difference between the two there's no point in having them at all.

[Eduardo Godinez]

W E Ray wrote:

If I recall Rakasta first were published in Castle Amber and Isle of Dread -- but a number of old mods from '80 - '82 had them and I think David Howery even included him in his "Leopardmen"/ "Land of Men with Tails" adventures.

I would have no problem putting Rakasta all over Oerth in the places where you think they can help your Campaign. They've been there all along, just haven't shown up in the campaign.

What always troubled me was the Litorian (Monte Cook). I mean, heck, I like the Litorian but you don't need two cat-people -- unless you make a distinct racial difference between the two there's no point in having them at all.

I must say I'm not very familiar about rakasta, since I've believe they're mostly Mystara material and I've been focusing my "archeology" studies mostly in GH & Planescape. Either way I'd think GH "rakasta" should have their own culture, since the catfolk as presented in RotW are pretty much just crunch no fluff. I've kind of come to like the idea of them worshipping the less evil Olman gods (Quetzalcoatl mainly, can't remember ATM others), thought I'd like to know if someone else has included them in their campaign and how they did it.

Where did the Litorians show up? Are they next to some other cat-people? AFAIK Greyhawk is lacking any cat-people, so I don't think there will be too much of a problem introducing them to spice things up a bit.

[Stebehil]

Well Greyhawk has the Catlord, back in the original MMII. So some "cat themes" are probably all right. That said, depending just which cats these cat people should emulate talls you where you could place them: Jaguar people probably in Amedio or Hepmonaland, "siberian" tiger people in the north (the Tiger Nomads come to mind), lion people could be in the arabian northwest, "indian" tigers perhaps with the Scarlet brotherhood and thereabouts.

Stefan

[W E Ray]

Litorian are a Bace Race in Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved -- the Players Handbook he would've done if he'd done the 3.0 PHB instead of the 3.0 DMG (He made the AE a full Campaign Setting.). Anyway, they're cat-people.

I always loved MMII's Cat Lord but, and maybe it was just cuz of the picture, I see him as a human with cat-like/ demigod abilities and maybe a good rapport with cats -- like a totem or something.

[Eduardo Godinez]

Stebehil wrote:

Well Greyhawk has the Catlord, back in the original MMII. So some "cat themes" are probably all right. That said, depending just which cats these cat people should emulate talls you where you could place them: Jaguar people probably in Amedio or Hepmonaland, "siberian" tiger people in the north (the Tiger Nomads come to mind), lion people could be in the arabian northwest, "indian" tigers perhaps with the Scarlet brotherhood and thereabouts.

Stefan

I got an idea of a post I read here a while ago by Heathansson (sp?) where he theorized IoD's rakasta could have originated out of Olman Jaguar knights partially affected by the Savage Tide energies. I was thinking that perhaps a band/tribe made it to the continent, ehre they established, perhaps reestablishing raport with surviving Olman enclaves in the Amedio, slowly but steadily spreaing outwards to the North and West, perhaps only recently beginning to show up further north as the explorers from the Flanaess began adventuring in the Amedio, perhaps travelling with them to the Sheldomar area and further north as explorers, or beign captured as slaves/attractions by less scrupulous ones. Of course, the Scarlet Brotherhood would probably have captured some specimens, as slaves and experimental subjects.

[dungeonmaster heathy]

Spoiler my PBP:

Spoiler:

I think I retconned from that idea; I decided that rakasta on the Isle of Dread were explorers from Oerth's Antarctica (which isn't Greyhawk canon in any way shape or form)...
where there's a "Savage Land" (a la Marvel comics) type of jungle area; maybe they were jaguar knights too....IDK yet; just the bare bones of an idea.
Oh. And since they've decided that deinonychus might've had feathers, I figure that Olman "eagle knights" might as well be weredeinonychus, coz that's just f%!+ing awesome.

[Eduardo Godinez]

dungeonmaster heathy wrote:

Spoiler my PBP:

** spoiler omitted **

For extra awesome, make them proficient in chainsaw katanachucks ;)

Joking aside, my idea is to justify their presence in the Flanaess, while avoiding them becoming as prevalent as the other races, keeping them uncommon at most, that's why them living in the depths of the jungle sounds good to me. I'm still not sure to keep the lycanthropic origins idea, but I'd like to keep them worshipping the Olman gods.

[dungeonmaster heathy]

I think Hepmonaland or the Amedio Jungle would work pretty well for rakasta.

[dungeonmaster heathy]

You got stats for them katana chucks?
Heh heh....there's a chainsaw sword in chaositech;.....mwahahaha!

[W E Ray]

See, I don't think one needs to justify rakasta in Oerth -- they're as old as Kopru and Aboleth and everything in the Fiend Folio.

And Hepmonoland -- a place without mountains of published canon -- unlike Amedio, which ialso grossly smaller -- is a perfect place.

Or, if you (like most) place the Isle of Dread in Oerth go ahead and place them there.

Just because certain PCs (in your campaigns) haven't seen them doesn't meen they haven't been there (in small part) all along.

[Set]

The old Fiend Folio cat-race called the Tabaxi seem like a logical choice to throw into the Olman or Amedio jungles. (I like the idea of the jaguar knight / Tezcatlipoca association.)

[Blake Ryan]

I'm pretty sure Gord met the Catlord in Gary Gygax's Gord the Rogue greyhawk series.

But Stebehil is right, you can have different sorts of catfolk all over flanaess, as long as none of them are common.

Cougars and Snow Leopards in Rakers, Yatils, Hraak Forest and Burneal Forest.

Tigers and Jaguars in Amedio Jungle and Hepmonaland.

If you want to have them from another world/plane, Iggwilv could have brought some through several hundred years ago during her conquest of Perrenland.

If you want to have them migrate from elsewhere, across the Hellfurnaces from the Celestial Imperium, or up from Amedio Jungle.

[dungeonmaster heathy]

Blake Ryan wrote:

If you want to have them from another world/plane, Iggwilv could have brought some through several hundred years ago during her conquest of Perrenland.

I love her.

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Set wrote:

The old Fiend Folio cat-race called the Tabaxi seem like a logical choice to throw into the Olman or Amedio jungles. (I like the idea of the jaguar knight / Tezcatlipoca association.)

The Tabaxi are in Tome of Horrors (Revised).

[Eduardo Godinez]

Set wrote:

The old Fiend Folio cat-race called the Tabaxi seem like a logical choice to throw into the Olman or Amedio jungles. (I like the idea of the jaguar knight / Tezcatlipoca association.)

I just checked The Scarlet Brotherhood. Tabaxi are mentioned in passing as inhabiting some of Hepmonaland's jungles...

dungeonmaster heathy wrote:

Spoiler my PBP:

** spoiler omitted **

And I reread Tides of Dread. They went with the Jaguar knight/lycanthropic origin too ;) It's also mentioned that some rakasta might have left the island and settled elsewhere, and that pockets of survivors might still be found in the IoD. That said...

I think I'll be going with the lycanthropic origin. Some rakasta would have left the isle and settles in the Amedio and Hepmonaland. The Amedio rakasta quite possibly established contact with the Olman of Xamaclan. I'm thinking of a possible schism among the rakasta, with some more "civilized", or less savage, rakasta, turning to the worship of Quetzalcoatl or the less savage Olman gods (I'm basing this mainly in that the IoD rakasta are mentioned as having allied with Couatls, which are associated with Quetzalcoatl), while rakasta which have backslided into savagery turning to the worship Tezcatlipoca and allying themselves with the werejaguars of Hucanuea. I think I'll distinguish the latter as tabaxi.

In this case, while I was planning in introducing them until the Savage Tide AP, I might introduc them during the Shackled City AP, perhaps some rakasta are trading with Cauldron abd Sasserine, and some even might have settled in or near the cities.

In a side but related note, I think I'll be ditching the "canon" Olman pantheon and insted I'll use the version presented in class acts. I'll say I wasn't too thrilled in finding out that all but one of the Olman gods were overwhelmingly evil. David Schwartz's take on them struck me as a more balanced pantheon.

[Stebehil]

Eduardo Godinez wrote:

In a side but related note, I think I'll be ditching the "canon" Olman pantheon and insted I'll use the version presented in class acts. I'll say I wasn't too thrilled in finding out that all but one of the Olman gods were overwhelmingly evil. David Schwartz's take on them struck me as a more balanced pantheon.

I think this is because the real world mesoamerican gods do have quite dark tones, AFAICT. I think you refer to the articles in Dragon here, right? There were four parts on the Aztec mythos, in #352/354/356/358. According to the Dragondex, there was one article on monsters in #317.

Stefan

[Eduardo Godinez]

Stebehil wrote:

I think this is because the real world mesoamerican gods do have quite dark tones, AFAICT. I think you refer to the articles in Dragon here, right? There were four parts on the Aztec mythos, in #352/354/356/358. According to the Dragondex, there was one article on monsters in #317.

Stefan

While I'm not an expert in Aztec mythos, I do know that Aztec religion was heavy in dualism, and several gods had dualistic concepts, ie both "good" and "evil" aspect, it's just that it's usually the "dark" aspects that tend to be dwelled upon. I liked the cass acts articles (those four plus parts 5 and 6 posted here in the forums) because it mentioned some more obscure myths that aren't usually as well known, like the creation of the Fifh Sun.

[Set]

It's probably a gimme, but having Rakasta be related to Rakshasa, in the same way that Tieflings are related to Fiends, or Shifters are related to Lycanthropes, could be another route to take. Perhaps they were bred as intermediary flunkies, overseeing the pureblood humans, in lands where Rakshasa rule openly (somewhere off the map), but some have escaped that life (or been sired more 'by accident' in the course of Rakshasa shapeshifting shenanigans with the mortal folk), or that culture fell ages ago, and the Rakasta now exist in the ruins of the kingdoms their progenitors once ruled.

[Eduardo Godinez]

Set wrote:

It's probably a gimme, but having Rakasta be related to Rakshasa, in the same way that Tieflings are related to Fiends, or Shifters are related to Lycanthropes, could be another route to take. Perhaps they were bred as intermediary flunkies, overseeing the pureblood humans, in lands where Rakshasa rule openly (somewhere off the map), but some have escaped that life (or been sired more 'by accident' in the course of Rakshasa shapeshifting shenanigans with the mortal folk), or that culture fell ages ago, and the Rakasta now exist in the ruins of the kingdoms their progenitors once ruled.

While an interesting idea, that would place them too much into "India" territoty (since IMC that's how I envision Rakshasas). For some reason I really like the idea of giving the rakasta ties to the Olman and their pantheon.

[Set]

Eduardo Godinez wrote:

While an interesting idea, that would place them too much into "India" territoty (since IMC that's how I envision Rakshasas). For some reason I really like the idea of giving the rakasta ties to the Olman and their pantheon.

True, Oerth doesn't really have an ideal location for that sort of origin (which, frankly, is terribly derivative of what the Yuan-Ti already do, breeding kinda-man/kinda-snakes to oversee their purely human slaves).

Plus, I'm a huge fan of the pseudo-Aztec/Mayan stuff the Olman have going on, so hooking the Rakasta into some sort of older jaguar knight / were-jaguar species, is way cool (and more setting-appropriate).

[Eduardo Godinez]

Set wrote:

True, Oerth doesn't really have an ideal location for that sort of origin (which, frankly, is terribly derivative of what the Yuan-Ti already do, breeding kinda-man/kinda-snakes to oversee their purely human slaves).

Plus, I'm a huge fan of the pseudo-Aztec/Mayan stuff the Olman have going on, so hooking the Rakasta into some sort of older jaguar knight / were-jaguar species, is way cool (and more setting-appropriate).

I'm thinking of replacing Oerth's catfolk/rakasta automatic languages (Common and Feline, according to RotW) with Olman. I don't think they would have developed a separate language, especially if the kept at least semi-regular contact with Olman tribes/cities. What do you think?

[Set]

Eduardo Godinez wrote:

I'm thinking of replacing Oerth's catfolk/rakasta automatic languages (Common and Feline, according to RotW) with Olman. I don't think they would have developed a separate language, especially if the kept at least semi-regular contact with Olman tribes/cities. What do you think?

Makes perfect sense, given their location. If a specific catfolk wants to speak Common, he can either put a skill point into Linguistics, or take it as a bonus language if he's got Int 12+.

I'd be inclined to call 'Feline' something like Rakasta, if it's just their own language. The word 'feline' as a language name suggests that they'd be able to communicate with all felines, which may or may not be a cool quirk (don't weretigers have a similar ability? It would be neat if that was the only 'werejaguar' trait that passed on, instead of the transformation / damage reduction stuff, the ability to communicate with feline creatures).

Alternately, they might not even have their own separate language, if they aren't anything other than Olman people who've transformed centuries ago into jaguar-men. They might still speak a variation of Olman better suited to their new mouthes, and never have developed a totally new 'racial' language. (Or you could say that the languages have enough similarity that anyone who speaks one can make a Linguisitics or Intelligence check to attempt to understand the other, sort of like the differences between Sueloise and Ancient Sueloise.)

[houstonderek]

hehehehe

[JaenChronicler]

Awesome thread! Set, your GH-lore is appreciated.