How does the damage on a powerful charge increase if you took something like improved natural attack? A wooly rhinoceros has a normal gore attack of 2d8+13 and a powerful charge (gore) damage of 4d8+18. If the rhino took improved natural attack to up its gore attack to 3d8+13 what would the damage on the powerful charge become?
I don't think there is a written rule for it. I looked and never found it, if there is one, but I have always done it the way you described.
Ok, at least I am not missing something obvious. So.. should it seems that the powerful charge attack does double the base damage (kind of like vital strike) Anyone think that might be the case?
It seems so. Remember the strength modifier is multiplied by 1.5 also.
Rhinoceros CR 4
Melee gore +8 (2d6+9)
Special Attacks powerful charge (gore, 4d6+12)
...
ninja'd :-)
Can you use the "normal" charge and Vital Strike together?
Charge is a full-round action. Vital Strike is applied when you use your attack action - so, yes, you can use it.
Though I wouldn't let it go together with a natural attack (such as a gore from the example), since IMO Vital Strike is used when you have iterative attacks (with a made weapon), but can't full-attack for whatever reason or judge you won't hit with your iterative attacks anyway - and you cannot iteratively attack with natural weapons (except when you take Multiattack).
Ruyan.
Can you use the "normal" charge and Vital Strike together?
Charge is a full-round action. Vital Strike is applied when you use your attack action - so, yes, you can use it.
Though I wouldn't let it go together with a natural attack (such as a gore from the example), since IMO Vital Strike is used when you have iterative attacks (with a made weapon), but can't full-attack for whatever reason or judge you won't hit with your iterative attacks anyway - and you cannot iteratively attack with natural weapons (except when you take Multiattack).
Ruyan.
Umm... nothing in Vital Strike says it can only be used if you have iterative attacks. Limiting it from natural attacks is arbitrary and not anywhere supported by the rules. I think your Wild Shaping druid and your biting barbarian would be disappointed with your adjudication.
Heck, you are right, TLO3.
Ruyan.
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you cant vital strike on a charge. this gets asked like 4 times a week. (Search the threads)
vital strike takes its own standard action to perform. cant be used on spring attack either
Also multiattack doesn't let you take iterative attacks, it just reduces the penalty on secondary attacks to -2 instead of -5
true, so true, nameviolation:
Errata from 8/20/10 on Vital Strike and Charge.
Concerning Mulitattack, I was referring to the section under AC in the druid's description:
Multiattack
An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty.
Emphasis mine. To me this reads exactly like for iterative attacks made with a weapon. *shrugs*
Ruyan.
agreed.
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Does anyone have a definitive answer on how powerful charge damage increases?
A normal rhino gore does damage of (dice+ 1.5*StrMod).
Powerful charge does damage of (double dice + 2*StrMod), via reverse engineering.
Improved Natural Attack (INA) would increase the dice per schedule. Powerful charge applied to that would be (double new dice + 2*StrMod).
Rhino w/INA: (does not qualify, insufficient BAB)
Wooly Rhino w/INA:
Melee gore +14 (3d8+13)
Special Attacks powerful charge gore (6d8+18), trample (2d6+13, DC 23)