One of the last places the players will visit in this campaign arc is a country that is relatively advanced by the rest of the world's standards.
This means clockwork technology - including "clockwork swords," the closest thing a D&D character will get to a chainsaw.
I want players to able to use these. I was thinking that stats would be as follows. A simple greatsword reskin can always be done, but I want these to be unique. If anyone's seen similar equipment detailed in another spot, please lead me to it:
The hilt of a clockwork sword is heavy and bulky, for within it is contained the gears and springs that turn its four blades. These sharp metal disks are affixed to a shaft protruding from the hilt; the simplest of magics keep the blades turning, although a version that requires manual winding can also be purchased.
Clockwork Sword (self-winding)
8 lbs
400 gp
2d8 slashing damage
x3 crit
Requires EWP (clocksword) to use at all
Special: trip, disarm (The blades in each pair spin towards each other, tugging at flesh and fabric and helping the wielder to upset his opponent's grip or balance.)
Clockwork Sword (manual winding)
8 lbs
275 gp
2d8 slashing damage
x3 crit
Requires EWP (clocksword) to use at all
Special: trip, disarm (The blades in each pair spin towards each other, tugging at flesh and fabric and helping the wielder to upset his opponent's grip or balance.)
Special: requires swift action to start the blades turning every X rounds
I'm not sure what number X should be - every five rounds, perhaps? Or maybe just once per combat, but it doesn't take effect until the next round (so you'd have to use something else in the "spin-up" round).
Sounds really cool to me. I like it.
There's a similar weapon in the Gnomes of Golarion book (its a buzz saw attached to the end of a staff), and the buzz saw spins for an amount of rounds equal to the users strength modifier, perhaps you could use that?
"Buzz-saw blades on a stick" is exactly how I'm visualizing this. I think I'll knock the price on the manual version down a bit and use something like that STR mod idea.
Also, I think this might be better suited in Advice - any way to move it?
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This is not balanced at all. 2d8 damage plus a x3 crit plus trip plus disarm is too much for one weapon.
I think a better version would drop the trip and disarm. Drop the damage to 2d6. You can keep the x3 crit and possibly make it 19/x3. You could also add a minor beneficial effect such as always defeats wood hardness and/or causes sparks when fighting an opponent in metal armor which may cause flammable objects to burst into flame.
This is not balanced at all. 2d8 damage plus a x3 crit plus trip plus disarm is too much for one weapon.
I think a better version would drop the trip and disarm. Drop the damage to 2d6. You can keep the x3 crit and possibly make it 19/x3. You could also add a minor beneficial effect such as always defeats wood hardness and/or causes sparks when fighting an opponent in metal armor which may cause flammable objects to burst into flame.
Dammit, I meant 2d6. My mistake - I fiddled with the damage for a while.
I'd like to leave disarm, but on second thought I will remove trip. I've also made it weigh a bit more - this is a strong man's weapon.
Clockwork Sword (self-winding)
10 lbs
400 gp
2d6 slashing damage
x3 crit
Requires EWP (clockswords) to use at all
Special: disarm (The blades in each pair spin towards each other, tugging at flesh and fabric and helping the wielder to upset his opponent's grip)
This way, it's an expensive greatsword that costs a feat and has less crit range, but hits harder on a crit and can help disarm (plus the intangible benefit of flavor).
What are your thoughts on manual vs. automatic winding versions of the weapon, karkon?
I'm also considering a "shortsword" version of the weapon. Proposed stats (keeping your admonishments in mind):
Clockwork Shortsword (self-winding)
4 lbs
200 gp
1d8 slashing damage
x3 crit
Requires EWP (clockswords) to use at all [same feat for both weapons]
Special: disarm
Again, requires a feat and is costly, but hits harder on a crit and does more damage than a regular shortsword.
Yes, the problem is that (falcata excepted), exotic weapons kind of suck given how much you have to pay (a feat) for them. If you base this weapon off a greatsword, a normal exotic weapon could do 2d8 instead of 2d6. x3 instead of 19-20/x2 is generally considered kosher. The trip/disarm would be in excess of the normal exotic weapon guideline though. Thing is, exotic weapons are half a feat better than martial ones, they real all ought to get an overhaul excepting the racial ones that people don't generally pay for proficiency in explicitly.This is not balanced at all. 2d8 damage plus a x3 crit plus trip plus disarm is too much for one weapon.
I think a better version would drop the trip and disarm. Drop the damage to 2d6. You can keep the x3 crit and possibly make it 19/x3. You could also add a minor beneficial effect such as always defeats wood hardness and/or causes sparks when fighting an opponent in metal armor which may cause flammable objects to burst into flame.
Yes, I was using the necessity of the feat as part of my balancing. It could be added up like this (+ is better, * is neutral, - is negative):
+ disarm quality
* x3 crit instead of 19-20/x2
- costs a lot more
- requires EWP
I think I could stick the 2d8 back in and be okay.
Yes, the problem is that (falcata excepted), exotic weapons kind of suck given how much you have to pay (a feat) for them. If you base this weapon off a greatsword, a normal exotic weapon could do 2d8 instead of 2d6. x3 instead of 19-20/x2 is generally considered kosher. The trip/disarm would be in excess of the normal exotic weapon guideline though. Thing is, exotic weapons are half a feat better than martial ones, they real all ought to get an overhaul excepting the racial ones that people don't generally pay for proficiency in explicitly.This is not balanced at all. 2d8 damage plus a x3 crit plus trip plus disarm is too much for one weapon.
I think a better version would drop the trip and disarm. Drop the damage to 2d6. You can keep the x3 crit and possibly make it 19/x3. You could also add a minor beneficial effect such as always defeats wood hardness and/or causes sparks when fighting an opponent in metal armor which may cause flammable objects to burst into flame.
Yes, I was using the necessity of the feat as part of my balancing. It could be added up like this (+ is better, * is neutral, - is negative):
+ disarm quality
* x3 crit instead of 19-20/x2
- costs a lot more
- requires EWPI think I could stick the 2d8 back in and be okay.
If an exotic weapon's main ability is to do more damage than a standard weapon then giving it stats to do two more than a similar sized weapon would put it in line with weapon specialization. I am assuming this is a two-handed weapon. Ransuers are 2d4 X3, and they have disarm so an exotic weapon should be 2d6 x3, and disarm seems fair. I might even allow the weapon to strike as a reach or nonreach weapon with a -2 penalty. I figure if I have to pay a feat for a weapon it should be a good weapon.
Yes, the problem is that (falcata excepted), exotic weapons kind of suck given how much you have to pay (a feat) for them. If you base this weapon off a greatsword, a normal exotic weapon could do 2d8 instead of 2d6. x3 instead of 19-20/x2 is generally considered kosher. The trip/disarm would be in excess of the normal exotic weapon guideline though. Thing is, exotic weapons are half a feat better than martial ones, they real all ought to get an overhaul excepting the racial ones that people don't generally pay for proficiency in explicitly.This is not balanced at all. 2d8 damage plus a x3 crit plus trip plus disarm is too much for one weapon.
I think a better version would drop the trip and disarm. Drop the damage to 2d6. You can keep the x3 crit and possibly make it 19/x3. You could also add a minor beneficial effect such as always defeats wood hardness and/or causes sparks when fighting an opponent in metal armor which may cause flammable objects to burst into flame.
Yes, I was using the necessity of the feat as part of my balancing. It could be added up like this (+ is better, * is neutral, - is negative):
+ disarm quality
* x3 crit instead of 19-20/x2
- costs a lot more
- requires EWPI think I could stick the 2d8 back in and be okay.
If an exotic weapon's main ability is to do more damage than a standard weapon then giving it stats to do two more than a similar sized weapon would put it in line with weapon specialization. I am assuming this is a two-handed weapon. Ransuers are 2d4 X3, and they have disarm so an exotic weapon should be 2d6 x3, and disarm seems fair. I might even allow the weapon to strike as a reach or nonreach weapon with a -2 penalty. I figure if I have to pay a feat for a weapon it should be a good weapon.
With regards to the bold part: you are saying that if all it does is do another step of damage dice, it's not worth it?
Yes it is 2-handed; that was in the OP but I forgot it here.
Compared to the ranseur, this weapon gains one step of dice (2d6 as opposed to 2d4), and it loses reach. However, given that one must pay a feat for it, I think it would be okay to give it something else - specifically, I'd like to bring the damage dice up. I could use 3d4 instead of 2d6 (same max, higher min), perhaps - but if I'm spending a feat, I want it to be better than the greatsword and the ranseur
For example, the curve blade has the crit range of a rapier (18-20/x2) and does 1d10, but it is also two-handed. The rapier has the same crit range and is one-handed, but is 1d6. Between the rapier and the curve blade, the damage is two dice higher but there is a feat tax and the two-handed necessity.
My v3 of this weapon reflects a similar change between the ranseur and the clocksword. Two dice higher, but it loses reach and costs a feat. 19-20/x2 is comparable to x3.
Clocksword (self-winding)
400 gp
10 lbs
2-handed
2d8 slashing
x3 crit
Requires EWP (clocksword) to use
Special: disarm
Is this more balanced now? If not, would bringing the crit down to x2 fix it?
The whole idea is this is from an advanced society. Upgrading the tech level from fantasy med-ren to steampunk should have burlier weapons, and the price/weight counts against it too.
You could consider upping the price even further to make them more on par with the firearms stuff in the campaign setting. Based on the concept I have no prob having clockwork gear being clearly better than lesser tech. Balance is not the issue in this case, they just have to be internally balanced with the other gear of their tech level.
I'd be fine with 2d8 x3 or 2d6 x4 for the concept, keeping the disarm, and definitely adding +2 or even +4 to sunder. (The usual game statting of chainsaw type weapons in systems that I've seen ups the crit/spike dmg but reduces attack or base damage.) I'd not go with trip, apparantly in d20 the only weapons that can be used to trip have big curves on them.
You could even have lighter versions for longsword and shortsword, just convert the crit to its spikier equivalent, and either step up the damage die or the crit multiplier, and add the disarm/sunder perks.
Also, you could add arm/shoulder mounts for the self-winding blades to allow quick draw/storage. Or added weapon mounts to get your gunblade on. If you're avoiding firearms, extended clips for repeating xbows, one-hand mounts for xbows.
edit: ooh, yes, +1 to next post's dangerous misfires on natural 1s, again like the firearm optional rule
another edit: This is going to come into play near the end of a campaign, so having them be unbalanced compared to less advanced tech isn't so much of an issue. If there's any time constraint at all, it's not too likely they'll be able to switch enough feats or get enough enchanting done to match the weapons that they've been using so far.
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I would be more comfortable with your suggestion of using 3d4 to up the minimum and average damage. I also think you need to drop disarm as reach gives you a 10 ft donut and not a 10 ft diameter circle so in balance terms you are not giving up very much.
Alternatively you could require a second feat to use it. E.g. Combat reflexes
You could Instead give it a chance to crit the user on a 1 similar to kickback injuries from real chainsaws.
I would be more comfortable with your suggestion of using 3d4 to up the minimum and average damage. I also think you need to drop disarm as reach gives you a 10 ft donut and not a 10 ft diameter circle so in balance terms you are not giving up very much.
Alternatively you could require a second feat to use it. E.g. Combat reflexes
You could Instead give it a chance to crit the user on a 1 similar to kickback injuries from real chainsaws.
Hmm. I want to keep the disarm idea, but I'll definitely give it critical kickback - with no save, naturally. Natural 1 = you're taking 6d8, and that could be a hefty chunk out of any Fighter's HP.
Clocksword (self-winding)
10 lbs
400 gp
2-handed
2d8/x3 slashing damage
Requires EWP (clocksword) to use
Special: disarm
Special: +2 on sunder attempts
Special: On a natural one, the wielder of this weapon takes damage as if he or she had dealt himself or herself a critical hit.
It takes a feat, it's expensive, and it can mess you up - but it has high average damage, it has some useful non-HP-damage applications, and there's the "cool factor."
After much deliberation, I will be sticking with 2d8 - d4s just don't roll well. I figure the possibility of sticking yourself for a nice little chunk of HP counters that out.
And in the end, so what if it's a little OP compared to most weapons? The character won't have it for too long anyway and I like the flavor a lot.
Were I suggesting this for your game, karkon, I would absolutely swap the damage for 3d4 and cut out disarm, but I'm pretty sure that it won't make waves in mine. Thanks, everybody!