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I'm sorry if this has been posted somewhere but I searched and couldn't find the right answer to what I am asking.
I am currently playing a ranger, so my stealth is fairly decent. What I want to know about is if we are in combat (lets say 4 enemies and 3 of my comrades plus me) can I make a stealth check against Enemy A if he is in combat with Comrade A with the intentions of getting a surprise attack on him?
So the goal here is to use the current melee combat he is in to give me a distraction enough to attempt to remove his Dexterity Modifier from AC for the purposes of my next attack.
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That's honestly totally your GM's call. The general consensus around here seems to be that Enemy A being in combat with Comrade A is not sufficient distraction to cause enemy A to lose his Dex bonus to your next attack.
That's the way I would rule, anyway. The rules are notoriously ambiguous on matters concerning Stealth, which is why this honestly falls under the "GM Needs to Make a Ruling" umbrella.
Seems to me the most logical thing would be to manuever yourself into flanking with your ally. +2 to hit for both of you every round: probably more beneficial than spending a few rounds running away, hiding, then sneaking back up on the guy to attack once and do it again.
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Seems to me the most logical thing would be to manuever yourself into flanking with your ally. +2 to hit for both of you every round: probably more beneficial than spending a few rounds running away, hiding, then sneaking back up on the guy to attack once and do it again.
Yea it was more of a "Can I just do this since he isn't specifically in combat with me?" type of a thing.
stealth really isn't suppose to be combat oriented. once battle begins there is no further chance for "a spontaneous surprise round in battle". either the enemies are ready for combat or there not, there is not in between in pathfinder. I prefer it that way as well. why would you waste rounds/actions sneaking around hiding and waiting why your party is doing all the work. giving up attacks doesn't seem worth a bonus to hit to me....
stealth really isn't suppose to be combat oriented. once battle begins there is no further chance for "a spontaneous surprise round in battle". either the enemies are ready for combat or there not, there is not in between in pathfinder. I prefer it that way as well. why would you waste rounds/actions sneaking around hiding and waiting why your party is doing all the work. giving up attacks doesn't seem worth a bonus to hit to me....
Really? You can actually just hide in the shadows and get sneak attack. Re-stealthing in concealment is a totally legit tactic.
No.
Hiding does not make your opponent flat footed against you passed the surprise round. It is impossible to stealth while fighting, and as soon as you swing at him you are fighting and not stealthing.
You cannot hide while you are being observed. While you are in combat the enemy is paying attention to you, even if you have cover or concealment that are less than 100%.
Your allies do not provide you with cover for purposes of making a stealth check.
No.
Hiding does not make your opponent flat footed against you passed the surprise round. It is impossible to stealth while fighting, and as soon as you swing at him you are fighting and not stealthing.
You cannot hide while you are being observed. While you are in combat the enemy is paying attention to you, even if you have cover or concealment that are less than 100%.
Your allies do not provide you with cover for purposes of making a stealth check.
Right, but any Concealment allows you to use stealth (against most creatures) as per the second sentence of the 4th paragraph on CRB 106. Flat footed doesn't matter, denied dex bonus matters. You are denied your dex bonus when you can't react to the attack. You can't react to the attack if you cannot see the attacker.
Mind you — I'm not saying you can re-hide using anything more than the Sniping rule. If someone is looking right at you, concealment or cover does nothing unless it is 100%, that I get. I'm talking about starting from stealth and using the rules for sniping.
Really? You can actually just hide in the shadows and get sneak attack. Re-stealthing in concealment is a totally legit tactic.
Well here's where it gets interesting.
You can't enter stealth whilst attacking. This is true.
The limitations on Stealth are that it's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging. It doesn't say you cant use it in or at a combat, indeed you can.
By -
"If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth".
So you can use a Bluff attempt.
"While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast".
...and available cover/concelament (any, not just 100%), with a penalty...
"Because any square with undergrowth provides concealment, it's usually easy for a creature to use the Stealth skill in the forest. Logs and massive trees provide cover, which also makes hiding possible."
And preferrably in a forest.
OR
"Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location".
So you can shoot at them and maybe not give up your hidden status - this is stealthing 'in combat'
OR
If you manage to move a sufficient distance to break line of sight and move into 'cover', then it follows you are able to re-stealth. Examples would be to move around a few corners in a dungeon, move beyond teh creatures perception range in the terrain you are in etc.
The question is though, why bother as a Ranger?
Most Dex scores out and about aren't that amazing - you may as well flank, which will reduce the AC by around the same amount on average, and also make life easier for your friend on the other side. If you got Bonus damage dice then sure, but Ranger? not so much.
This is the way I see it:
Just because the guy isn't, at this very moment, trying to stick a piece of metal into your organs doesn't mean he completely ignores you.
People usually keep at least half an eye trained on their surroundings (more if we're talking about weird monsters with lots of eyes, like spiders), so they know you're there, which means you're more or less observed.
On the other hand, it's not impossible to get out of sight. All you have to do is to pull off the old "Look over there, a distraction" routine and you're good to go.
The bluff skill is your ticket for that. Since the guy is kinda distracted, I'd grant you a circumstance bonus.
The bluff skill is your ticket for that. Since the guy is kinda distracted, I'd grant you a circumstance bonus.
Indeed.
Hope CHA wasn't your dump stat :)
On the other hand, you get your favoured enemy modifier to Bluff as a Ranger.
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The bluff skill is your ticket for that. Since the guy is kinda distracted, I'd grant you a circumstance bonus.Indeed.
Hope CHA wasn't your dump stat :)
On the other hand, you get your favoured enemy modifier to Bluff as a Ranger.
It was more or less just a question...
And everyone's assumptions that flanking is better isn't always the case...why would an archer want to stand right next to the big guy with the sword?
it been posted in great detail on "message board loot"
so.... dose that mean (in a fog cloud)i can bluff move away stealth and sneak attack once? providing i have improved blind fight and/or Shadow Strike ?
so.... dose that mean (in a fog cloud)i can bluff move away stealth and sneak attack once? providing i have improved blind fight and/or Shadow Strike ?
Probably not.
Its not stated what sort of action "bluffing to create a distraction is" but i highly doubt that its a free action. Since it's not listed I've always said its a standard action, thus you can bluff and move,but then you don't have an action left to make the attack.