In the dwarf hate thread, I had the idea that I might play a dwarf wizard at some time. Now dwarves are not generally known for their arcane talents, so this needs some kind of backstory. Dwarves are known for being warriors and craftsmen and their traditions. (Disclaimer: I´m well aware that arcane caster dwarves are allowed as per the rules, even with some special spells noted in Dwarves of Golarion. Still, the concept of arcane casting dwarves feels somewhat strange to me. Thus the need for a backstory.)
So, a dwarf that studies arcane knowledge would not sit well with his community. Perhaps he found a spellbook as part of some spoils of war and his curiosity got the better of him, so he started reading and noticed that he could follow what was written there, and he even managed to cast a cantrip – once. (Ideally, I would use some 0-level multiclassing rules, for giving him fighter 0/wizard 0. If that’s not possible, I would just start as fighter 1 (traditional upbringing) with perhaps some arcane knowledge.) At some point, his fellow dwarves noticed his unorthodox studies and ostracized him, so he is forced to become an adventurer. The former owner of the spellbook or his companions might want it back, or the book might contain some black magic (a dwarf necromancer is a nasty idea somehow) A dwarf wizard would be a singular thing in any game I would DM or play in, but the idea is interesting. The background would more or less inevitably lead to an eldritch knight, I think.
Another idea might be a dwarf sorcerer. While being problematic from a mechanic point of view, with the -2 to charisma, it might make for an interesting story (as a side note, I will probably houserule that dwarves can choose if the -2 applies to cha or dex). Some strange influence in dwarven blood will surely lead to this dwarf being thrown out, if they leave him alive at all. I could imagine infernal, abyssal or even undead bloodlines, or if you have a particularly nasty streak, fey. This makes for an even darker character, as he gets kicked out for no fault of his own - or is it? Perhaps he experimented with forces beyond his ability to handle, say, while working on some special smithing project, and got overwhelmed. Depending on the details of the backstory, the other dwarves might even want his death, and he fled as soon as his mistake became obvious – say, some other dwarf got killed. Whatever the details, I think this will be a dark story.
Combining it with other classes would work as well, I guess. Rogue is always a viable combination, if less classical. Cleric – now there it gets interesting. I am not sure what dwarven god might accept a dwarfs pursuits into arcane dabbling. Dranngvit, the dwarven god of revenge (from Dwarves of Golarion) might be an option if I take the concept that far that he seeks revenge on his former kinsmen now. This would surely a stretch for this god, but might be an idea. Other than that, Droskars aspect of trickery might fit the bill, at least from a dwarven point of view.
Ideas, comments, opinions?
Stefan
One way to make a dwarven arcane caster more fitting to "traditional" dwarves is to have their casting related somehow to runes or sigils.
Forgotten Realms had a PrC called the "runecaster" which specifically added the mechanical flavor to casting via runes.
However, with some GM cooperation, there is no balance reason to prevent a dwarf from using a runic spellbook, runic spell components etc.
Super Genius Games also put out a guide called The Genius Guide To Rune Magic. They also have one for Crystal Magic (which can also go well with a dwarven spellcaster due to that crystals are known to be found in caves and such) and Earth Magic (due to a dwarf's affinity to earth.) all three of these are worth the money and may provide much insight as to how you would like to play your character.
Also, Paizos playtest for Wordcasters could also be very cool with this type of character, basically saying that the words you use to cast your spells you learned from ancient dwarven runes.
all in all, for your spells, i would stick close to earth and acid spells as your combat type spells, look into runic and crystal magic for your utility spells, then try and pick spells that may relate more to a dwarf in their aspect. just my 2cp
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Maybe I'm the oddball here, but I've always seen dwarves as very suited for the arcane pursuit. They're stoic, level headed, and prone to intense commitment: very wizardly. I see dwarven wizards as focused on things that produce a tangible result. They would favor conjurations, transmutations, abjurations, and even divinations. I don't see them as at all interested in enchantments, illusions, or most necromancy.
As for sorcerer, there have to be at least a few- after all, it's in the blood. I imagine sorcerers are looked upon with great awe, perhaps even a bit of fear. Dwarves are a naturally resilient race, and so I imagine they'd be keen on bloodlines that increased their innate survivability: earth elemental, destined, and even celestial.
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In the APG, the alternate racial traits for Dwarves are pretty good, making some deep down denizen of the earth, and then combining that with the Stone Oracle, can be a VERY flavorful class...lots of fluff and backstory options there.
Although, if you are playing in a campaign where he is always above ground and riding on boats, not so helpful.
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I play a neutral dwarven necromancer in a Greyhawk game. (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil) He's not that good (yet), but he's a great debuffer. (In theory)
Despite being a Necromancer, Alvis abhors undead. He uses debuffs spells like ray of enfeeblement to take down the heavy weaken the heavy hitters, and he uses spells that are effective against undead. Ofcourse he doesn't even get the chance to use the latter, because of our cleric. (Our DM has decided to limit the number of undead, because it wasn't funny anymore)
Alvis could have been more effective if he was a cleric though. (Neutral aligned, but with Rebuke Undead)
I agree with Sean FS- Dwarves + Wizzy always seemed to fit to me, I mean, they already HAVE the beard :) The Earth focused Wizard in APG is pretty awesome- I mean Earth glide at 8th level? how is that NOT cool?
Con and Wis bonus to saves, leaves more points for INT. You can go in just about any direction, except maybe necro or enchantment, IMO, and be on solid ground.
I agree with Sean FS- Dwarves + Wizzy always seemed to fit to me, I mean, they already HAVE the beard :)
Yeah, but dwarves with pointy hats just look silly - like this:-)
Seriously, thanks for all the ideas.
Stefan
And if the dwarven community isn't prone toward wizardry, it gives the dwarven wizard increased incentive to go adventuring. Gotta expand the spellbooks somehow!
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If a player wanted to try their hand at a Dwarven Sorcerer, I'd totally allow them to take the -2 Dex instead of -2 Cha. The Elemental (earth or fire, for someone with Azer ties) or Celestial bloodlines seem the most intuitive, with Destined (ancestral spirits providing guidance) and Aberrant (delved too greedily, and too deep) also fitting.
Dwarves pre-D&D were heavily associated with magic, particularly those Norse dwarves, who crafted Thor's hammer, Odin's spear, the bonds that held Fenris, etc. and were not only magical craftsmen, but also shapeshifters and able to enslave others magically.
Given the natural attitudes of dwarves, I'd see them as rune-wizards first and foremost, keeping sturdy locked metal-bound tomes, but also engraving spells on tablets, or even walls, for those stay-at-home sorts.
Tolkein left a big shadow on our perceptions of elves and dwarves, and if I were to discount his contribution to D&D entirely and go with a more myth and folklore inspired version of the two races, I'd have Dwarves gain a bonus to Intelligence, and be natural wizards (explaining both their advanced smithcraft and their magical skill), and Elves have a bonus to Charisma and be natural Sorcerers (they don't pore over books or study until their eyes cross, magic is innate to their blood, as natural, spontaneous and wild as their personalities). Each would have their own dismissive view of the other, with elves thinking that dwarves have to study, study, study to touch the sort of power that is every elf's birthright, while dwarves scorn the limited understanding of the art that the flighty elves have, relying too much on poorly understood and completely undisciplined inborn talent.
Take the 'elven chain' and turn it back into a dwarven creation (as it was in The Hobbit), and the dwarves take back some of their reputation as being better at some things than those darned elves.
In most mythoses, dwarves are magical folk, such as Aztec were-jaguars, Egyptian Ptah, Norse tradition (as mentioned earlier), etc. etc.
I think Pathfinder kind of dropped the ball when they gave Dwarves a bonus to Wisdom instead of Intelligence, and when they gave Elves a bonus to Intelligence instead of Charisma...or Wisdom.
If elves got +2 Cha, should gnomes or halflings get +2 to Wis instead? Maybe halflings....if they're hobbit-like and thus generally level-headed.
In 2E, one of my favorite characters was a NG derro mage/thief. Back then, and into 3E, they were a dwarven off-shoot, but apparently are no longer in PF (but I still have them as such in my campaign world). And yes, i realize the whole "killed by sunlight" problem but we over came it. Anyways, despite being of "dwarven blood", he sits as one of the most powerful arcane practitioners and sages in my campaign world. He was short, tough, smart, quick, and always helped his party gain victory through his level-head, logic, and diverse knowledge of magic. In 3.5E he was rogue20/wizard20/Archmage5, but in Pathfinder would be something like Rogue10/Wizard20/Alchemist5. Fun guy, always getting his good friend and companion out of trouble - a large CN minotaur Fighter. I always advocate for a good twist to typical characters.
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They weren't dropping the ball. It was that continuation of D20 thing, remember? They had all this history they had to answer to.In most mythoses, dwarves are magical folk, such as Aztec were-jaguars, Egyptian Ptah, Norse tradition (as mentioned earlier), etc. etc.
I think Pathfinder kind of dropped the ball when they gave Dwarves a bonus to Wisdom instead of Intelligence, and when they gave Elves a bonus to Intelligence instead of Charisma...or Wisdom.
If elves got +2 Cha, should gnomes or halflings get +2 to Wis instead? Maybe halflings....if they're hobbit-like and thus generally level-headed.
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In most mythoses, dwarves are magical folk, such as Aztec were-jaguars, Egyptian Ptah, Norse tradition (as mentioned earlier), etc. etc.
I think Pathfinder kind of dropped the ball when they gave Dwarves a bonus to Wisdom instead of Intelligence, and when they gave Elves a bonus to Intelligence instead of Charisma...or Wisdom.
If elves got +2 Cha, should gnomes or halflings get +2 to Wis instead? Maybe halflings....if they're hobbit-like and thus generally level-headed.
They got what they got... Due to hold over vs Past edition.
Just be glad they got ride of "DUMB" Level caps & Class restriction for Demi-Humans / Non-Humans.
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This special broadcast brought to you by Hobbiton New Co., dated 10/10/1978
Hob says "Greeting and welcome to Hobbiton news, the news you want to know." "Today, we will be interviewing General Darkanvil, son of Hammerfall, of the Hills of Toothpick.... dont ask, named by elves, and the name stuck."
You hear in the distance General Darkanvil yell "Charge", as Hob walks up to the general.
Hob, "So General, i see your army is on the move again. Mind if i ask were your wizard firepower is located."
General, "Wizards.... Ah...we do not use wizards."
Hob, "So no magic spell get throw at your enemys like fireball, or wall of fire"
General, "Ah... no. We Dwarves do not use magic.. because... ah...well... ah... because... ah... WE do not like magic, ya that why. We do not like magic, it ah.... Dishonorable to use magic. Ya Dishonorable."
Hob, "So the Dwarves do not use magic spell. Ok, guess i can see that. So since dwarf do not like magic, were does all your Magic weapons and Armor come from ??""
General, "Oh... ah... hummm that a good question, i guess. Hummm... were do they come from... ah.... Clerics !!. Our Cleric enchant our Weapon and Armor, to give us the magic items we need."
Hob, "Oh... so how do Dwarves have cleric, when cleric is a restricted class to Humans ??"
General, "... what... oh.... forgot about that... ah... hummm... well... humm.. we.. humm... well....AH! We dwarves hire humans to worship Moradin, to then come cast spells for us, and enchanter our weapons and armor. Preferable female humans, with names that start with Cat or Kat or Catt, etc. Oh and i guess we sometime hire Human wizards too.... ya that right.. them too."
Hob, "Well one last question, why are you warring against the elves today??"
General, "Because we hate elves... because... well... because... humm. (why do we hate elves again) Well, because... BeCause they named our Hill, Toothpick Hill. Ya that is a good reason to kill the elves."
Hob turn away from the general, and look into the Mirror holding man.
Hob, "Well you heard it here first, Dwarf Outsourcing is become all the new rage, and why dwarves hate the elves in this area." "Come back tomorrow, when we will be interviewing the Elven General Greenwood Toothpick." "Well be asking why elves hate dwarves? Why they dance and pray outside at night under the full moon ... when only humans are allowed to be clerics?? How are they able to make Magic items, when they are limited to 5th level spell max, but Permanence is a 8th level magic spell. And many many many more questions,"
Hob, says "That a wrap, pack up the scrying mirror and lets get out of here become someone starts shooting at us", ...walks off toward the Wagon with Hobbiton New log on it.
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I always thought dwarves and elves should get along: dwarves live under the hills and elves live in the woods growing out of the hills. They can overlap geographically and keep all the nasty orcses and goblinses away.
True..
Started out that way..
But then people began asking question, like where do dwarf get all the wood needed to smelt iron, gold, and silver.
This lead to Axe-Wielding dwarf, as Tree Cutters.
And you know how Elves are about there trees
..Oh well, wars start over the silliest things sometimes.
But then people began asking question, like where do dwarf get all the wood needed to smelt iron, gold, and silver.
I guess that they need coal to do this, as it burns hotter. But you still need a lot of timber for all the mines, even if dwarves have a natural talent for working the stone.
Ya Coal was my first thought too..
.. But not everyone thinks the same, and in the stuff i read, the tree cutting was there normal explanation... Guess they lived in a NON-Coal region of the country.
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Oddly enough, Oliver McShade, dwarves used to make a LOT of magic weapons in previous editions. There weren't any rules that allowed PC's to make magic anythings, but casting spells and magic magical swords were two entirely different skills back then.
I think they should have remained different skills.
Oddly enough, Oliver McShade, dwarves used to make a LOT of magic weapons in previous editions. There weren't any rules that allowed PC's to make magic anythings, but casting spells and magic magical swords were two entirely different skills back then.
I think they should have remained different skills.
There were rules for making magic items.... you just did it with spells like enchant an item + permanency, and adding in Gold costs.
If you have the "D&D Rules Cyclopedia"... you can find the rules on page 250-254.
I know that dwarfs were said to have lots of magic items, but how they came by them, was not very well explained in Basic Dungeon & Dragons. The same is true of elves.... The Class Restriction..... would have prevented them from making them..
Which is why this store, posted above, was in JEST.
I always had the source of dwarf elf conflict as new dwarven construction needing lumber supports as a temporary scaffold with the elves prefering the "lumber" in the form of living trees.
Back in 3.5, I had a lot of fun with a heavy-armored dwarven abjurer. If I remember right, the build went something like cleric 1 (inquisition, for +4 to dispel checks)/specialist wizard (abjurer) 3/master specialist (abjurer) 1/runesmith 1/master specialist +3/initiate of the sevenfold veil ... 2? I actually got him up to 11th level.
He was a blast to play. I brought him back as an NPC in a later campaign, where his abjurations and general spellcasting wackiness threw the players for a loop. : )
I based an entire clan of Dwarves on the 3.5 Wayfarer Guide prestige class. The example NPC Wayfarer in the book (Complete Arcane) was a dwarf named Anvilheart. This got me to thinking about Dwarven wizards who focused on teleportation, and thus were often conjuration specialists. Think of a dwarven clan that no longer has to worry about highway brigands when they bring their goods to market. No more worrying about lost gold or gems. One only needs a single mercantile dwarven mage with a portable hole, a teleport spell and a penchant for profit. What could be better? For backstory I had each new Anvilheart mage commanded to go out into the world and open new markets. Closely study new locations and report back, every new piece of information adding to the clan's sphere of influence and trade. Ulfgar Anvilheart was a charter member of my long running Age of Worms campaign. The player took the basic idea outlined above and ran with it creating a vivid and memorable hardcore capitalist conjurer. Interestingly he did eventually multiclass, going the fighter/eldritch knight route. I guess dwarves never stray too far from their warrior roots...
WDM4f
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....Given the natural attitudes of dwarves, I'd see them as rune-wizards first and foremost, keeping sturdy locked metal-bound tomes, but also engraving spells on tablets, or even walls, for those stay-at-home sorts.
....I'd have Dwarves gain a bonus to Intelligence, and be natural wizards (explaining both their advanced smithcraft and their magical skill), and Elves have a bonus to Charisma and be natural Sorcerers (they don't pore over books or study until their eyes cross, magic is innate to their blood, as natural, spontaneous and wild as their personalities). Each would have their own dismissive view of the other, with elves thinking that dwarves have to study, study, study to touch the sort of power that is every elf's birthright, while dwarves scorn the limited understanding of the art that the flighty elves have, relying too much on poorly understood and completely undisciplined inborn talent.
Take the 'elven chain' and turn it back into a dwarven creation (as it was in The Hobbit), and the dwarves take back some of their reputation as being better at some things than those darned elves.
Hear, hear! Consider the balance of this Masterwork Idea yoinked for the betterment of games everywhere!
I'm not convinced that taking the magic out of dwarf lands was Tolkein's doing. I suspect that was mostly D&D's contribution, making dwarves especially resistant to magic but incapable of its use. Both Elves and Dwarves successfully made Rings of Power in Tolkien's Middle-Earth, without falling to corruption, after all. True, dwarves played second fiddle to the elves in Middle-Earth, and we never really got to find out much about them, but I always thought of them as being fairly magical creatures - magic spirits of earth and stone rather than of leaf and life (elves) or hearth and home (hobbits).
More to the point - the 3.0 Elf should not have had Wizard as his favored class. He should have had sorcerer as a favored class. And the 2e Dwarf should not have had Magic-User as a forbidden class. Had these happened, then maybe PF dwarves and elves would be aligned more closely to the way you describe. Also, I think the 1e "Elf" class and subsequent elven fighter-mage is LEAGUES closer to the sorcerer than the wizard. Consider:
Sorcerer has more weapon proficiencies than does the wizard.
Sorcerer pays for this by getting high-level spells more slowly.
Sorcerer is described as gaining magic easily and through inborn talent, thus having the time to master at least the basics of weaponry and combat.
Granted, those aren't the only differences, but feel free to substitute "Elf" or "Fighter-Mage" for "Sorcerer" in those sentences. Elf magic was always born with the elf in Forgotten Realms, Mystara, and other D&D worlds. It was just something they could do naturally, leaving humans to study and pore over tomes to get the same power. They thought of human study of magic as being crass and even profane at times, as magic was sort of a sacred mystery to many of them. This is not a wizard culture. This is sorcerer land. The decision to make elves into natural wizards always seemed illogical, silly, and wacky to me, and it moved them out of the "elf" zone and even further into "pointy-eared human" territory.
Am I making sense?
I always had the source of dwarf elf conflict as new dwarven construction needing lumber supports as a temporary scaffold with the elves prefering the "lumber" in the form of living trees.
Would you say that these dwarves are prone to building fortresses? Perhaps a fine Dwarf Fortress or two?
Which is why this store, posted above, was in jest.
I know, I know. I just want the record to show that D&D is positively littered with great, magical dwarven artifacts. And it has been since before dwarves could use any magic at all.
I've always thought that the skill of making great stuff and the skill of casting great spells are two different skills, and that the game mechanics should reflect that. Caster level never ought to play a part at all.
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little off topic...
But they did make a Fighter/Mage class for elves.... called BARD
If you look at the bard list, even a little elven healing magic thrown in.
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I always felt like Dwarves were a natural for any form of magic related to crafting. Since both Arcane & Divine magic are practical for that purpose, a dwarf who was seen as a magical craftsman would be accepted as "normal" within a particular Dwarven society.
I think the Dwarven predisposition to Divine magic comes primarily from another famous Dwarven attribute: talent w/ heavy armors.
While it is possible to use Arcane magic w/ armor, it takes a lot more effort (which is in keeping w/ the typical portrayal of Arcane & Divine magic). Additionally, Divine casters tend to be tougher, have a wider variety of defensive options, while allowing "offense" to take a back seat. All of these fit w/ a Dwarven mindset more readily.
There's an old Dragon Magazine that I have that talks about Racial Warfare & Tactics (Blanking on the article's actual name, sorry). One of the Dwarven quotes was something to the effect of, "It is better to release a thousand arrows to slay one foe, than to allow one of our brothers to fall."
Essentially, because Dwarves have a slower birthrate & longer childhood (combined w/ a heartier physique), it makes sense that (as a race), it would be natural to focus on a STRONG defense over offense. The typical "family clan" structure of Dwarven society would really only reinforce the "defensive" nature of Dwarven tactics.
Thus, at the end of the day, it is pretty understandable to say that Arcane magic would be less popular. However, that does not preclude the idea of a Dwarven Arcanist. Some schools of Arcane Magic play directly into the concept of a good defense, particularly Abjuration, Divination, & Transmutation. The last of those can even help the prospective wizard become a passable melee combatant, while granting an array of solid offensive powers as well.
The typical Dwarven Arcanist would probably a weapon or armor smith, & take multiple Item Creation feats. They would probably have the mindset of the tactician, utilizing spells in a deliberate & limited fashion, always with the intent of maximizing the benefits of their spells. Evocation would probably be held in low regard, since catching your "clan" in the blast of a fireball would be held as a desperate & foolish risk.
Good Arcane Prestige Classes for Dwarves (sticking to Pathfinder here): Eldritch Knight (make your weapon & have the skill to use it), Loremaster (Weapon Trick, Dodge Trick, & an encyclopedic knowledge of Clan Family Trees works really well for a Dwarf), and even Mystic Theurge (since you would have both the offensive & defensive variants of magic at your disposal).
As to your Charisma-based Arcane Casters... that gets a little tougher. Personally, I think Bard is a more fitting option than Sorcerer. First, a Bard only needs a Charisma of 16 to cast all of their spells, which is a more reasonable goal for a Dwarf. Additionally, while it may debatable how "magical" the dwarven community is, it is very easy to picture them as being musical. An old 3.0 book I used to own talked about a Dwarven Bard concept called "The Heartbeat Drummer." Essentially, the Bard focused on (again) on abilities that helped raise his allies Defense (or possibly hinder the opponents attacks), and channeled it all through powerful drum rhythms. That is something that would prove to be reasonably well accepted (if not extremely common) within Dwarven society.
Sorcerers are probably going to be the "odd-man out" in the Dwarven community, but don't forget: that's the way they're already portrayed, to a degree. They didn't ask for magic. They didn't necessarily want magic. They probably didn't even know that they HAD magic, but then it manifested. In ANY society, the Sorcerer is typically on the fringe, powerful & feared, but never really trusted. Raw, unguided talent does not inspire a lot of faith in well-established communities (a type of community that Dwarves would exemplify).
If you're going for a Dwarven Arcanist who is an outcast, Sorcerer is practically a custom fit, given the nature of the Sorcerer class. With the racial hindrances to Charisma, multi-classing is almost guaranteed for maximum efficiency. But, that's not necessarily a bad thing...
Arcane Armor Mastery would allow them to function w/o penalty in Mithral Chain Shirt, & w/ only a 5% Spell Failure chance in Mithral Full Plate (which doesn't slow down a Dwarf, remember). Suddenly, you have a heavily armored character, with a reasonable Bluff (good Charisma)... most people wouldn't see the spellcaster coming, hidden behind the Dwarven facade. And, don't forget this IMPORTANT note on Arcane Spell Failure: if it doesn't have Somatic components, then Spell Failure doesn't apply...
A well chosen selection of spells can make a "Dwarven Warrior," a terror to some unsuspecting foes.
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little off topic...
But they did make a Fighter/Mage class for elves.... called BARD
If you look at the bard list, even a little elven healing magic thrown in.
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Very true. Unfortunately, the 3rd-edition bard was supposed to be a continuation of the 2nd-edition bard. This means we can't give it to the elf; we're supposed to give it to the half-elf. Or maybe the human. But not the elf. And the 3rd-edition elf had wizard as a favored class, not bard. I would have been happy with bard. Not wizard.
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But they did make a Fighter/Mage class for elves.... called BARD
If you look at the bard list, even a little elven healing magic thrown in.
Right there with ya. A mix of mobile lightly-armed fighting, artistic grace and magical skill? The Bard has 'elf' written all over it.
D&D's mechanics have never truly suited their 'fluff.' D&D Elves have a lower than normal Constitution, despite being the one core race that lives outside, and for a long time. The flavor text even describes them as having few children, despite this, which suggests that the race would be all-but extinct, since, with their low Con, they'd be far more prone to infant mortality, disease, infection, death-by-exposure, etc. than a human child living in the woods with a bunch of hippies.
A penalty to Strength (for the smaller Greyhawk-sized elves) or Intelligence (for the wilder 'savage' elves of some settings) would make more sense than the penalty to Con, just as the Dwarven Charisma penalty never really made much sense for that race, described as being bound in layers of social tradition and run by proud and willful people, unlike the socially awkward shut-ins or rude and obnoxious jerks suggested by a racial Charisma lower than some of the 'evil' humanoid races (like hobgoblins and kobolds, which have more compelling and charismatic rulers and generals than dwarves!).
Dwarves should probably have a Dex penalty, rather than a Cha penalty. The argument I've seen against that was that they were supposed to be good craftsmen, but since craft skills are based on Int, not Dex, that's a non-issue.
What, nobody mentions the Dwarf Empyreal sorcerer ?
Also, he can take a typical dwarvish familiar (mole, badger, any other animal that burrows or lives underground/in the mountains).
This thread is from 2010, Ultimate magic (in which the Empyreal Sorcerer first featured) didn't come out till 2011.
there is also the sage bloodline or sorcerer that lets you use int not cha...i think it is sage
Empyreal is better for the Dwarf due to his higher wisdom bonus, but yes, even Sage is better than the standard Sorcerer.
ah yes forgot about that other bloodline
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In the dwarf hate thread, I had the idea that I might play a dwarf wizard at some time. Now dwarves are not generally known for their arcane talents,That's a more recent Tolkien thing. In Norse legend Dwarves are the source of the bulk of magic items, wards, and curses. Which pretty much covers the bulk of Norse magic.
Indeed, the dwarves that made Mjolnir were also said to be able to use magic like shapeshifting and illusion, in addition to banging out artifacts!