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Spirited Charge allows a character to do double damage when charging on a mount. Is the strength bonus doubled as well or just the weapon damage? What happens when you crit during your spirited charge? What happens when you crit during a spirited charge with a lance?
So assuming normal damage is a longsword(1d8) with a +2 Strength bonus, does a spirited charge do 2d8+2 or 2d8+4?
On a crit, does the same attack do 2d8+4 or 3d8+2 or 3d8+6? Or is the double damage doubled again for 4d6+???
A lance does double damage on a mounted charge, and Spirited charge increases this to triple. What about the strength bonus?
Does a normal mounted lance charge with a +2 strength bonus do 2d8+2 or 2d8+4?
With Spirited Charge, does it do 3d8+2 or 3d8+6?
On a spirited crit, what happens then? Lances normally crit at x3. Does the spirited crit stay at x3 or become x4 or x6? What happens to the Strength bonus?
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When you double spirited charge damage, double damage as though a x2 critical hit had occurred. This means strength is increased, as is power attack.
All multipliers are added, sort of. x2 + x2 = x3. x2 + x3 = x4. x3 + x3 = x5. So add the multipliers together and subtract one to get the total multiplier.
The answers to your situations are:
2d8 + 4 (1d8+2 doubled for charge)
3d8 + 6 (1d8+2 doubled for charge, increased to x3 by critical hit)
2d8 + 4
3d8 + 6
Spirited charge lance crit = x5 damage. Strength damage is also multiplied.
When you double spirited charge damage, double damage as though a x2 critical hit had occurred. This means strength is increased, as is power attack.
All multipliers are added, sort of. x2 + x2 = x3. x2 + x3 = x4. x3 + x3 = x5. So add the multipliers together and subtract one to get the total multiplier.
The answers to your situations are:
2d8 + 4 (1d8+2 doubled for charge)
3d8 + 6 (1d8+2 doubled for charge, increased to x3 by critical hit)
2d8 + 4
3d8 + 6
Spirited charge lance crit = x5 damage. Strength damage is also multiplied.
It would bex4 for a lance crit your own math says that. A x3 attack that crits becomes x4
Yar.
~The lance has a x3 crit, and Spirited charge does a base x3 for lances, so that's a x5 on a spirited charge lance crit.~
...now get ready for a long and detailed response...
Only when an addition to damage is called out as not being multiplied on a crit does it not multiply on a crit (sneak attack damage, precision damage and extra damage dice -from flaming, holy, and bane properties, for example- are the most common damage additions that do not multiply on a crit). Everything else does multiply with a crit (strength damage, weapon specialization bonus, power attack bonus, the weapons enhancement bonus (including the extra +2 enhancement from bane, but not the 2d6), and even the extra damage from the Cavaliers Challenge is multiplied.
The Lance has special rules for it, which can sometimes cause some confusion, especially with the Spirited Charge feat and the multitude of multiplications you will end up getting with it and charges... so I have added the Warhammer to the list in my coming examples (a melee weapon with the same damage and base crit as the lance) to show the difference. Lances can be wielded one handed when mounted, so I included one handed and two handed damages for all 3 weapons.
Longsword: 1d8 19-20/x2
Warhammer: 1d8 20/x3
Lance: 1d8 20/x3
Spirited Charge: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
20th level Cavalier ability, Supreme Charge: whenever the cavalier makes a charge attack while mounted, he deals double the normal amount of damage (or triple if using a lance).
Lets say this is a character with a strength of 22, for a +6 bonus when one-handing weapons, and a +9 bonus when two-handing weapons.
Power attack: lets say we're level 8, so power attack is at -3/+6 when one-handing, -3/+9 when two-handing. (I would like to note that when charging, you can use the Furious Focus feat to negate the penalty to hit, which is great when you're only making one attack per round anyways)
Being level 8, this Cavalier's Challenge will do +8 damage per hit. :)
For some extra fun, each weapon will be +2 Holy Human Bane. (+2 normally, +4 +2d6 vs humans, +2d6 vs Evil))
Lets give him some Rhino Hide for an extra +2d6 damage on all charge attacks.
Now lets see how disgusting this damage can get...(Warning: these lists are long).
one handed power attack: 1d8+2+6+6
final: 1d8+14
one handed power attack, crit: (1d8+2+6+6)x2
final: 2d8+28
one handed power attack spirited charge: (1d8+2+6+6)x2, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 2d8+28 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+42 +2d6
one handed power attack vs. Human: 1d8+4+6+6, +2d6
final: 1d8+16 +2d6
one handed power attack vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x2, +2d6
final: 2d8+32 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human: (1d8+4+6+6)x2, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+32 +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x3, +4d6
final: 3d8+48, +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+6+6)x2, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+32 +6d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x3, +6d6
final: 3d8+48, +6d6
one handed power attack Challenge: 1d8+2+6+6+8
final: 1d8+22
one handed power attack Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x2
final: 2d8+44
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x2, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 2d8+44 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+66 +2d6
one handed power attack Challenge vs. Human: 1d8+4+6+6+8, +2d6
final: 1d8+24 +2d6
one handed power attack Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x2, +2d6
final: 2d8+48 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x2, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+48 +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x3, +4d6
final: 3d8+72, +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x2, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+48 +6d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x3, +6d6
final: 3d8+72, +6d6
@ Lv 20: (1d8+4+6+12+20)x4, +6d6
@ Lv 20 final: 4d8+168, +6d6
Two handed power attack: 1d8+2+9+9
final: 1d8+20
Two handed power attack, crit: (1d8+2+9+9)x2
final: 2d8+40
Two handed power attack spirited charge: (1d8+2+9+9)x2, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 2d8+40 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+60 +2d6
Two handed power attack vs. Human: 1d8+4+9+9, +2d6
final: 1d8+22 +2d6
Two handed power attack vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x2, +2d6
final: 2d8+44 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human: (1d8+4+9+9)x2, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+44 +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x3, +4d6
final: 3d8+66, +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+9+9)x2, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+44 +6d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x3, +6d6
final: 3d8+66, +6d6
Two handed power attack Challenge: 1d8+2+9+9+8
final: 1d8+28
Two handed power attack Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x2
final: 2d8+56
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x2, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 2d8+56 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+84 +2d6
Two handed power attack Challenge vs. Human: 1d8+4+9+9+8, +2d6
final: 1d8+30 +2d6
Two handed power attack Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x2, +2d6
final: 2d8+60 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x2, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+60 +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x3, +4d6
final: 3d8+90, +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x2, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+60 +6d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x3, +6d6
final: 3d8+90, +6d6
@ Lv 20: (1d8+4+9+18+20)x4, +6d6
@ Lv 20 final: 4d8+204, +6d6
one handed power attack: 1d8+2+6+6
final: 1d8+14
one handed power attack, crit: (1d8+2+6+6)x3
final: 3d8+42
one handed power attack spirited charge: (1d8+2+6+6)x2, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 2d8+28 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6)x4, +2d6
final: 4d8+56 +2d6
one handed power attack vs. Human: 1d8+4+6+6, +2d6
final: 1d8+16 +2d6
one handed power attack vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x3, +2d6
final: 2d8+48 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human: (1d8+4+6+6)x2, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+32 +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x4, +4d6
final: 4d8+64, +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+6+6)x2, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+32 +6d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x4, +6d6
final: 4d8+64, +6d6
one handed power attack Challenge: 1d8+2+6+6+8
final: 1d8+22
one handed power attack Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x3
final: 3d8+66
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x2, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 2d8+44 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x4, +2d6
final: 4d8+88 +2d6
one handed power attack Challenge vs. Human: 1d8+4+6+6+8, +2d6
final: 1d8+24 +2d6
one handed power attack Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+72 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x2, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+48 +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x4, +4d6
final: 4d8+96, +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x2, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+48 +6d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x4, +6d6
final: 4d8+96, +6d6
@ Lv 20: (1d8+4+6+12+20)x5, +6d6
@ Lv 20 final: 4d8+210, +6d6
Two handed power attack: 1d8+2+9+9
final: 1d8+20
Two handed power attack, crit: (1d8+2+9+9)x3
final: 3d8+60
Two handed power attack spirited charge: (1d8+2+9+9)x2, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 2d8+40 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9)x4, +2d6
final: 4d8+80 +2d6
Two handed power attack vs. Human: 1d8+4+9+9, +2d6
final: 1d8+22 +2d6
Two handed power attack vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+66 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human: (1d8+4+9+9)x2, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+44 +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x4, +4d6
final: 4d8+88, +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+9+9)x2, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+44 +6d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x4, +6d6
final: 4d8+88, +6d6
Two handed power attack Challenge: 1d8+2+9+9+8
final: 1d8+28
Two handed power attack Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x3
final: 3d8+84
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x2, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 2d8+56 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x4, +2d6
final: 4d8+112 +2d6
Two handed power attack Challenge vs. Human: 1d8+4+9+9+8, +2d6
final: 1d8+30 +2d6
Two handed power attack Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+90 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x2, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+60 +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x4, +4d6
final: 4d8+120, +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x2, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 2d8+60 +6d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x4, +6d6
final: 4d8+120, +6d6
@ Lv 20: (1d8+4+9+18+20)x5, +6d6
@ Lv 20 final: 5d8+255, +6d6
one handed power attack: 1d8+2+6+6
final: 1d8+14
one handed power attack, crit: (1d8+2+6+6)x3
final: 3d8+42
one handed power attack spirited charge: (1d8+2+6+6)x3, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 3d8+42 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6)x5, +2d6
final: 5d8+70 +2d6
one handed power attack vs. Human: 1d8+4+6+6, +2d6
final: 1d8+16 +2d6
one handed power attack vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+48 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human: (1d8+4+6+6)x3, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 3d8+48 +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x5, +4d6
final: 5d8+80, +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+6+6)x3, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 3d8+48 +6d6
one handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6)x5, +6d6
final: 5d8+80, +6d6
one handed power attack Challenge: 1d8+2+6+6+8
final: 1d8+22
one handed power attack Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x3
final: 3d8+66
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x3, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 3d8+66 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+6+6+8)x5, +2d6
final: 5d8+110 +2d6
one handed power attack Challenge vs. Human: 1d8+4+6+6+8, +2d6
final: 1d8+24 +2d6
one handed power attack Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+72 +2d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x3, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 3d8+72 +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x5, +4d6
final: 5d8+120, +4d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x3, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 3d8+72 +6d6
one handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+6+6+8)x5, +6d6
final: 5d8+120, +6d6
@ Lv 20: (1d8+4+6+12+20)x7, +6d6
@ Lv 20 final: 7d8+294, +6d6
Two handed power attack: 1d8+2+9+9
final: 1d8+20
Two handed power attack, crit: (1d8+2+9+9)x3
final: 3d8+60
Two handed power attack spirited charge: (1d8+2+9+9)x3, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 3d8+60 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9)x5, +2d6
final: 5d8+100 +2d6
Two handed power attack vs. Human: 1d8+4+9+9, +2d6
final: 1d8+22 +2d6
Two handed power attack vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+66 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human: (1d8+4+9+9)x3, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 3d8+66 +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x5, +4d6
final: 5d8+110, +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+9+9)x3, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 3d8+66 +6d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9)x5, +6d6
final: 5d8+110, +6d6
Two handed power attack Challenge: 1d8+2+9+9+8
final: 1d8+28
Two handed power attack Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x3
final: 3d8+84
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x3, +2d6 (rhino hide)
final: 3d8+84 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge, crit: (1d8+2+9+9+8)x5, +2d6
final: 5d8+140 +2d6
Two handed power attack Challenge vs. Human: 1d8+4+9+9+8, +2d6
final: 1d8+30 +2d6
Two handed power attack Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x3, +2d6
final: 3d8+90 +2d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x3, +4d6 (bane plus rhino hide)
final: 3d8+90 +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x5, +4d6
final: 5d8+150, +4d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x3, +6d6 (bane plus holy plus rhino hide)
final: 3d8+90 +6d6
Two handed power attack spirited charge Challenge vs. Evil Human, crit: (1d8+4+9+9+8)x5, +6d6
final: 5d8+150, +6d6
@ Lv 20: (1d8+4+9+18+20)x7, +6d6
@ Lv 20 final: 7d8+357, +6d6
As you can see, the Longsword is powerful (and will crit more often, but not as hard), the warhammer is brutal (less crits, but when it does…SMASH!), and the lance is quite simply devastating. :)
~P
Wools I missed the lance being x3
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Pirate seems to have forgotten something: when a Cavalier gets Mounted Mastery (around 9th lvl) he gets to add his mount's STR bonus to damage on the charge as well as his own, which will bring up the damage considerably (given that the mount will have about a +6 bonus - more likely +8 at 20th level. :P
Yar.
I left that out because only Order of the Sword Cavaliers gain that ability, and that bit of info was never included in the OP.
~P
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Whoops, I missed the lance being x3.That it is, when used with Spirited Charge. Also note that the multiplier math is being used here as well:
Normal mounted lance charge: x2
Normal spirited charge: x2
Spirited charge + lance charge = x3
God help your enemy should you actually crit with a lance on a spirited charge!
God help your enemy should you actually crit with a lance on a spirited charge!Whoops, I missed the lance being x3.That it is, when used with Spirited Charge. Also note that the multiplier math is being used here as well:
Normal mounted lance charge: x2
Normal spirited charge: x2
Spirited charge + lance charge = x3
A crit with a lance from horseback, with spirited charge:
x5
Is this correct?
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This post makes me really bitter. In early 3.5 days I built a paladin who was just made to mounted charge things. Totally built with the lance in mind, spirited charge, even rode a lion, all that good stuff.
In the set of adventures we played with that character I managed one crit on a charge. It was perfect too, natural 20 back with a 19. I picked up my huge pile of dice to roll that had been sitting there waiting for this eventuality and the DM points out the enemy has blur and oops I missed.
At some point we houseruled in that the natural 20 is an automatic hit whatever the circumstance rather than just an 'ignore their AC' hit. I still hold a grudge though.