Sneak Attack + AoE spells

[chaoskin]

Quote:

Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he

is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she
can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her
target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether
the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when
the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6
at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels
thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a
sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged
attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is
within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap,
whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak
attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal
damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage
to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with
the usual –4 penalty.
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to
pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot.
A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature
with concealment.

Quote:

Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an

area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each
case, you select the spell’s point of origin and measure its
effect from that point.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area,
including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect
creatures
with total cover from its point of origin (in other
words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default
shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are
specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines
how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except
that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin
for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones
or spheres.
A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn
corners.
You select the point of origin, and the spell
spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the
area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns
the spell effect takes.

this is a firestorm at my end of the world someone sayed that they can add sneak attack to a fireball if there flat-footed. i sayed no! but he had a good point can i add sneak attack to acid splash, acid arrow, scorching ray?

[Pendagast]

yup

[kyrt-ryder]

You can add sneak attack to anything that uses an attack roll. That means that you (normally) can NOT make a sneak attack with an AoE spell.

The one exception invokes one of the Arcane Trickster's class abilities.

[martinaj]

I challenge you to make a surgically precise strike with a fireball.

[kyrt-ryder]

martinaj wrote:

I challenge you to make a surgically precise strike with a fireball.

ranged touch attack vs AC = Target's flat footed AC + 4 (tiny target) to shoot the ball of bat crap between the target's thighs and detonate it there?

[martinaj]

Well, from a RAW standpoint, since a fireball doesn't require an attack roll, you can't apply precision based damage without.

From a flavor based standpoint, I don't envision a guy being at the epicenter of an enormous gout of flame then falling back and shouting "Ah! My spleen!"

[kyrt-ryder]

martinaj wrote:

From a flavor based standpoint, I don't envision a guy being at the epicenter of an enormous gout of flame then falling back and shouting "Ah! My spleen!"

More like falling down and clutching his crotch screaming "BUT I HAVEN'T HAD ANY CHILDREN YET!"

[Pendagast]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

martinaj wrote:

I challenge you to make a surgically precise strike with a fireball.

ranged touch attack vs AC = Target's flat footed AC + 4 (tiny target) to shoot the ball of bat crap between the target's thighs and detonate it there?

i didnt say anything about fireball...but the touch attacks? rays? yes you can.

We even had a guy who sneak attacked with vampiric touch once... lol none of us had ever thought of it.

we were thinking of coming up with a cool witch hex that let your familiar sneak attack for you...or you through it... kinda the way touch attack spells and familiars work

could be fun and nasty

Im always looks for ways to make familiars more worthwhile.

[chaoskin]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

You can add sneak attack to anything that uses an attack roll.

sneak attack damage what would it be like scorching ray would it be more fire or force?

[kyrt-ryder]

Valid points Pendragast. I'm the one who mentioned that the Arcane Trickster can sneak attack with an AoE (explaining to the Original Poster that said class is the only way to do so.)

[kyrt-ryder]

chaoskin wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

You can add sneak attack to anything that uses an attack roll.

sneak attack damage what would it be like scorching ray would it be more fire or force?

Sneak attack deals the same type of damage as the attack that uses the sneak attack. So yeah, the scorching ray is fire sneak attack damage.

In the case of energy drain, the sneak attack damage is negative energy I believe.

[chaoskin]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Arcane Trickster's class abilities.

i look up that class there no were you can add add sneak attack to a fireball or aoe

[kyrt-ryder]

chaoskin wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Arcane Trickster's class abilities.

i look up that class there no were you can add add sneak attack to a fireball or aoe

Look Again

[chaoskin]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

chaoskin wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Arcane Trickster's class abilities.

i look up that class there no were you can add add sneak attack to a fireball or aoe

Look Again

ok if some takes the class. but what if i dont taking the class

[kyrt-ryder]

chaoskin wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

chaoskin wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Arcane Trickster's class abilities.

i look up that class there no were you can add add sneak attack to a fireball or aoe

Look Again

ok if some takes the class. but what if i dont taking the class

Then only attack roll spells work with sneak attack :)

[Lyrax]

If nobody takes the Arcane Trickster class, then nobody can sneak attack with a fireball.

But anyone with sneak attack can sneak attack with a weapon-like spell (any spell that requires an attack roll).

[ZangRavnos]

Lyrax wrote:

If nobody takes the Arcane Trickster class, then nobody can sneak attack with a fireball.

But anyone with sneak attack can sneak attack with a weapon-like spell (any spell that requires an attack roll).

+1

Key word is "Weapon-Like Spell".

[Bertious]

You all seem to be forgetting the Arcane Archer's imbue arrow which would let you sneak attack whoever you shot with it in addition to the Aoe effect :).

Hmm thinking of that Hail of Arrows + sniper goggles + sneak attack could be rather scary if slightly one trick ponyish.

[ZangRavnos]

Bertious wrote:

You all seem to be forgetting the Arcane Archer's imbue arrow which would let you sneak attack whoever you shot with it in addition to the Aoe effect :).

Hmm thinking of that Hail of Arrows + sniper goggles + sneak attack could be rather scary if slightly one trick ponyish.

No I didn't forget, I simply have never heard a full definite answer on whether imbuing a weapon with a spell therefore makes the spell itself "Weapon-like". In that situation I've always read (never been in the situation myself) that the general consensus is the SA will apply to the arrow damage, not the spell, in that instance. Also to take into consideration is that must be done within 30' sans feats and abilities that extend the range for sneak attack to take effect.

[Bertious]

True only the target gets sneak attacked and the 30' is why i inluded the thought of sniper goggles:) although i only mentioned them in the second part my bad :)

Sniper Goggles
Aura faint divination; CL 5th
Slot eyes; Price 20,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
The leather strap attached to these bulbous lenses allows their
wearer to fit them to his head. The wearer of these goggles can
make ranged sneak attacks from any distance instead of the
normal 30 feet. When making ranged sneak attacks within 30
feet, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak
attack damage die.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, true strike; Cost 10,000 gp

With these, invisability, and the hail of arrows ability however you could sneak attack most of a battlefield, assuming you could carry enough arrows.

[ZangRavnos]

Bertious wrote:

True only the target gets sneak attacked and the 30' is why i inluded the thought of sniper goggles:) although i only mentioned them in the second part my bad :)

Sniper Goggles
Aura faint divination; CL 5th
Slot eyes; Price 20,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
The leather strap attached to these bulbous lenses allows their
wearer to fit them to his head. The wearer of these goggles can
make ranged sneak attacks from any distance instead of the
normal 30 feet. When making ranged sneak attacks within 30
feet, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak
attack damage die.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, true strike; Cost 10,000 gp

With these, invisability, and the hail of arrows ability however you could sneak attack most of a battlefield, assuming you could carry enough arrows.

Wow. That's lethal.

[Quantum Steve]

Fireball wrote:

If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

So if you make an attack roll, you can add sneak attack?

If so, can a "narrow passage" be a shirt button hole, or up his nose? Even if you miss the hole, it still detonates close enough, yeah?

[chaoskin]

sorry for the late post

a other Q&A the guy that started the firestorm stayed that he can becouse to hit a square is AC 5 so he can add sneak attack all in the AOE will take it (if he talling about a lower levels 2-10). i thank that bull crap to me but he has a good point thro.

1) where dose it say AC 5 for a square?

2) can you make a attack roll with AOE spell?

Quote:

Fireball

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and
height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead
streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a
material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed
range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. An early impact
results in an early detonation. If you attempt to send the bead
through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you
must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the
bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

3) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, what would be the AC for this?

and 4) touch attack and sneak attack beucse its a attack roll yes or no?

[kyrt-ryder]

The DC 5 for hitting a square is right, the sneak attack is bull shit. You aren't making an attack roll against the target, the target is making a reflex save against the spell.

[chaoskin]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

The DC 5 for hitting a square is right,

do you have the page #

kyrt-ryder wrote:

the sneak attack is bull s@@!. You aren't making an attack roll against the target, the target is making a reflex save against the spell.

that what im been trying to say

[Happler]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

The DC 5 for hitting a square is right, the sneak attack is bull s~#%. You aren't making an attack roll against the target, the target is making a reflex save against the spell.

Sure they are, they are making a sneak attack against the gap, feel free to deal extra damage against the gap (aka the air in the gap and nothing else, since it is precision damage).

j/k

I agree with you just could not resist.

[LostSoul]

I also agree it is bull s~#%, but there are precedents, one of which is Inflict Light. You must make a touch atk and they get a will save.

[kyrt-ryder]

LostSoul wrote:

I also agree it is bull s~#%, but there are precedents, one of which is Inflict Light. You must make a touch atk and they get a will save.

Well yeah, the same applies to Polar Ray. The fact that they're making a save if the attack roll hits is irrelevant, the point is that against a fireball or similar spell there is no attack roll against the target creatures.

[PSusac]

I would just like to point out the fact that this whole discussion is a consequence of the fact that Piazo is NO WHERE NEAR as good at editing it's rules as WotC was.

Would it have killed them to specify that Sneak Attack requried an attack roll to pull off?

[Seranov]

PSusac wrote:

I would just like to point out the fact that this whole discussion is a consequence of the fact that Piazo is NO WHERE NEAR as good at editing it's rules as WotC was.

Would it have killed them to specify that Sneak Attack requried an attack roll to pull off?

I would just like to point out this whole thread is two years old.

Would it have killed you to read the date stamps before you decided to complain about it?