Core questions (because, being me, I am going to supply long-winded context):
What are your secrets for battlefield control without being a nuisance to your fellow party members?
Especially when spells affect a sizeable area, how do you place them so as to make the battlefield a space conducive to your allies' efforts, without hampering them along with the baddies?
Context: I'm sorry if I've posted somewhat similar threads in the past, but this general field of inquiry is an ongoing source of both curiosity and frustration for me. (Heh).
This morning I noticed the new thread on 'How to play a Druid.' I currently play a Druid in our group's Kingmaker campaign, and I'm always looking for input, so I read the new thread. It was full of excellent advice, especially so far as I can tell from my position of very limited experience. But though I've heard similar recommendations before, I never seem to get to put such tactics into action, and this saddens me.
In another thread on these messageboards, I recently found a link to a blog post on Individualist / Collective / Competitive-Collective play styles. The post argued that most group problems come from one group member whose style doesn't match the others. The focus of the post was on players more competitive and individualistic than their collectively-minded friends, but I think I may be the problem player in my game, because I'm not Individualistic or Competitive *enough.* It's my natural inclination to play a cooperative character, so the game is less fun for me when no one is interested in collaboration.
When it comes to Druids' battlefield controls, I hardly ever get to get to use my best stuff, because the other group members don't *want* me to alter the battlefield or interfere with their direct, immediate melee engagement in any way. I dutifully prepare at least one Entangle, Sleet Storm, Wind Wall, etc., per day, and I always have Fog Clouds and Obscuring Mists on account of my domain. But (aside from the domain spells, which can't be exchanged), I always seem to end up exchanging these spells for SNAs, if I use them at all.
By way of example, last week a dangerous animal was charging toward us; the GM said it would reach us in two rounds. In order to give us more time to buff and summon, I filled up the area between the creature and ourselves with a Stone Call (from the APG). But our melee guys were all, 'What did you do that for?' and left to go meet up with the creature in the middle. I had intended to buff their Strength, Dex, etc. I had also intended to lay down a few squares of Persistent Spike Growth so as to possibly limit our opponent's base speed by way of foot injuries, but you can't do that (or Entangle or Sleet Storm) once your own party members are crowded around the target of your efforts.
They were also irritated at me when I threw up a Wind Wall to create a space protected from poison gas. They didn't have to stay inside it - are big enough to just walk on through - but they couldn't understand why I bothered. I was concerned about the more vulnerable members of the group, who can't afford to lose six hit points/round.
And those are examples where I had *some* opportunity to influence the playing field. More often, there's no time or no space to do so at all.
I realize that some of the problem comes from differing values within the group, but there are a lot of different groups out there who all seem to value battlefield control. I'm convinced I'm misunderstanding something important about these magic effects (I only recently discovered the 'Ds' in the spell descriptions that mean they can be dismissed), or that I'm not thinking creatively enough about how to use them. Many of you claim to use a Fog Cloud *every day*! How??? If I used a turn to make one, my group would just leave it, complaining that it blocked their shots. (Which is, after all, true).
Everybody loves these spells!!! So how do you use them without getting on your fellow party members' nerves?
I need scenarios! I need inspiration!
Boast to me about all your mightiest exploits in Battlefield Control, so that I can be like you when I grow up!
BFC spells are best when you are outnumbered, and/or overwhelmed. If you can separate the enemy forces so that you have to fight a smaller number or make them take a few rounds to get through or around whatever barrier you put up then that should work.
Other times you may just be better buffing and debuffing.
PS: Many times summoned monsters act as battlefield control. You can't go through their square so you have to kill them or go around. This is a time when it is better to use a higher level spell to bring lower level monsters in because you can get more than one, and they take up more space. Put them far enough apart and you can cover a decent area.
I think your group members are just being close-minded in the Wind Wall scenario. Did the lower-HP characters and the healer also not appreciate your efforts? I guess they like breathing poison gas and wasting heals. /sigh
I’m going to echo the other posters and say that battlefield control is generally wasted on a single enemy. Though it’s still not bad idea to keep one up your sleeve for that (hopefully) rare situation where retreat is required. I have experienced this – where an imminent TPK was only a PPK (partial party kill) because a ‘battlefield control-spell’ allowed the ranged characters to get away from a single baddy.
If the players of the melee characters refuse to wait for buffs, understand that that is their problem, not yours. It’s still frustrating, but your inexperience is not at fault. Try to see if you can get the players of the ranged characters on board. They might welcome your buffs and if not, ‘more buffs for me’. I’d also try talking to the player of the healer, because it sounds like your group members don’t feel the need to try and stay alive. There are a lot of awesome divine spells out there that are probably not getting used because the cleric (or equivalent) is used as nothing more than a healbot and he/she has bought into it. On the other hand, maybe the no-fear-of-death issue is due to your GM not properly tuning the difficulty, making encounters too easy. Battlefield control’s importance is positively related to the encounter’s difficulty. But it’s also possible the players just don’t get it, even the threat of or an actual death won’t get it through their thick heads - “But it’s the healer’s job to keep me alive, mahhh!”
Also remember, try not to take absolute statements from people on these boards to heart. There is some great advice, but be wary. Like you said every group and party is different. There is no ‘correct’ way.
Sorry I don’t have more specific advice on how/when to use battlefield control. All I’ve got is… Wait for the right opportunity (the poison gas example) and try not to shoehorn it in (the charging animal situation) when no one is willing to cooperate.
Here's some basics:
1: your melee wants to full attack something every round
2: your melee is functioning optimally if they have a single 5' square to worry about, or an arc in front of them (dependent on build, look into their feats).
3: your melee needs to generally let you do this at a distance, before they act, which makes initiative bonuses pretty good for a spellcaster.
For a single target, debuff the bad guy or buff your melee. You don't have to think too hard about this one, because a single creature is overwhelmingly favorable to the party in action economy. Get behind the fighter and let him eat the charge so he can full attack the monster. Hinder movement so the flank can stay in place. Perhaps make some sandwiches. The melee's got this unless the monster is of a significantly higher CR than the group.
Crowds are where you shine. Summon something mean-spirited and sick it on enemy casters (I like swarms for this. Om nom nom nom). Create difficult/impassible terrtain so the fighter doesn't eat multiple charges and can't get flanked while he murder stuff with full attacks. Use party buffs or debuffs/SoS spells to minimize enemy DPR machines (these tend to be fragile).
Spell selection is secondary to just having a purpose for your spells. entangle, summoned monsters, or a rolling ball of fire can all serve the same basic purpose in a pinch.
Be very familiar with your summon list and how abilities work. One of my favorite dirty caster tricks was destroying a flying spellcaster with a dire bat. Baddy was flying over molten tar to avoid direct melee engagements. Bat grapples baddy, overburderns him, and the two sink into the molten tar.
One dirty trick can turn an entire fight around.
This is awesome advice! Thank you so much.
One thing I hadn't really grasped before is that the type of encounters we're seeing might be different from the sort of stuff the optimization guides aim at. We do typically only have one monster at a time, and the exceptions have been my favorite fights; I just hadn't thought that hard about why.
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Here is my take.
The goal is to split the CR of the fight. Neutralize some targets long enough that you can finish a group before you work on the second group. There are some tricks to this.
1) One I have found to work well is leaving someone out of the AoE. This way you have an enemy or two pass they will run up to your party while the rest are stuck in your spell.
2) Identify weak saves. Big bads often make up the majority of the CR of a fight. If you can deal with them than you can sweep the mooks before the big guy. They often have the best save, but if you identify a weakness you can split the fight with a powerful single target spell. Not needing to worry about an AoE.
3) Break line of effect. Neutralizing casters is a big part of high level play. Spells Typically need line of effects. If you can break that you can give yourself a round to breath.
4) The deeper in initiative you are the harder AoE are to use because friendly fire becomes more likely.
5) Have a way to clear your spells. Dismissible metamagic, dispel magic, gust of wind etc. You may make a tactical error or you may want to get past a hazard quicker than you though. Having a way to clear never hurts.
6) Fog has proven to be one of the more divisive style of BFC. I tend to avoid it as most people don’t know how to play around it. The safe uses include when the opponent already has concealment (blur, deeper darkness etc), so everyone is on an equal playing field. When an archer is 110ft away and a melee skirmish is occurring so then can’t see you while you fight. Beyond those you need to get group by in to effectively use the spells.