I've been agonizing over whether to go into this prc or stay full Cavalier.
My character is the current baron in our Kingmaker campaign. As a Cav 4 his stats are Str 16, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 17.
Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge.
Things I like about BH:
Flavor - very much fits this characters role as the inspiring leader
Diplomacy, Intimidate and Leadership boosts
Party centric buffs
Some Cavalier synergy
Couple of bard spells for minor utility
Things I don't like:
No mount progression - I'm on the mounted combat feat track so this one hurts
No higher level cavalier abilities
No using bardic performance along with inspiring command
Possible watered down combat utility
Some possible workarounds:
Burn two feats on boon companion or burn cohort slot on a stronger mount.
Lingering performance to allow starting and stopping bardic performance and activating a command in the first round. This gives 2 rounds with both abilities active.
Any ideas on how to make this build more functional or suggestions for feats/equipment to help maximize it's potential? I've already made some sub-optimal build choices for RP purposes, but I don't want to find myself hating my character in combat for being useless.
The Battle Herald is a solid choice. It will allow for some truly awesome party buffing while allowing you to remain a solid warrior. Lets see .... with what you currently have I would attempt the following:
bard 2/cavalier 8/battle herald 10
Below are some build highlights:
* BaB = 19, Saves = 11/8/10, and solid hit points
* you can use inspiring command to inspire courage (+5, remember bard and battle herald levels stack for inspire courage bonus).
* complex commands (10th lvl battle herald) allows you to have more than one command ability in effect at one time.
* a plethora of great, yet situational, party buffs.
* excellent synergy with the leadership feat! this is a must have as you can obtain a cohort which can further buff the party (such as a paladin, cleric, or even a summoner[he could summon critters to flank with the rest of the party, or have them aid your comrades, if possible]).
Like you mentioned above you loose out on your mount progression, however. I find a mount an extremely situational boon at the best of times. The boon companion helps to mitigate some of the lost levels of mount progression.
The real bummer with the battle herald is that it requires the challenge ability yet does not stack with it for additional uses/damage. I wonder if this was an oversight? Maybe you could speak with your DM to see if you could tweak the class in some way?
Also take a look at the extra performance feat. It could prove useful for your character.
Lastly, you will not be mounted 100% of the time. What kind of fighting style do you resort to when you are on foot? Sword and board or 2hs? I believe its important to have all your bases covered so you should think about how he handles himself when not mounted.
Well I hope this helps some.
Cheers
Volf
P.S. If you are able to use the Spell Compendium you might want to check out the spell Inspirational Boost. It's made of win.
Thanks for the insightful reply.
Was toying with taking bard 2, but I think I'd prefer to wait until I finish Battle Herald up to get complex commands ASAP.
I don't have huge hp so mounted I usually use RBA with a lance to good effect and skirmish as opposed to slugging it out in melee. Off the mount I'm using sword and board for the most part. Have a masterwork longsword with a flail some javelins and longbow as backup weapons.
I know I can't stay mounted 100% of the time, but I'm actually enjoying playing a true cavalry type. Fighting on foot is a last resort.
My current planned feat progression is this:
1 Cav 1:Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack
2 Cav 2
3 Cav 3:Ride-by Attack
4 Cav 4
5 Brd 1:Power Attack or Lingering Song
6 BaH 1
7 BaH 2:Leadership
8 BaH 3
9 BaH 4:Boon Companion or feat not picked at 5 depending on whether I take a mount cohort
The rest I'm not sure on. Extra performance sounds okay, but I can't use it and command at the same time and performance requires a Standard action to activate. I kind of feel like I won't be using all my rounds of bardic performance, even on a full day of fighting. I could be wrong though.
Not sure whether I should try to specialize in a secondary fighting style, go for defensive feats or what. TWF for shield bash sounds fun. I was also thinking about weapon focus/dazzling display/shatter defenses line.
We're playing pathfinder only material so no Spell Comp. That said, not really sure what to take for my limited spell selection. Comprehend Languages and Unseen Servant fit thematically. Most other stuff seems like it will be worthless due to low caster levels and spell DCs.
TLO3 wrote: Was toying with taking bard 2, but I think I'd prefer to wait until I finish Battle Herald up to get complex commands ASAP. Well ... you could go bard 1/cavalier 9/battle herald 10. It works just as well tbh. This would also give you an additional teamwork feat.
TLO3 wrote: I don't have huge hp so mounted I usually use RBA with a lance to good effect and skirmish as opposed to slugging it out in melee. Off the mount I'm using sword and board for the most part. Have a masterwork longsword with a flail some javelins and longbow as backup weapons.
I know I can't stay mounted 100% of the time, but I'm actually enjoying playing a true cavalry type. Fighting on foot is a last resort.
Glad you're actually getting a chance to play up one of your character's strengths. I was in an Eberron campaign at one point in which I played a hafling scout[light cavalry variant] riding a dino. I loved the character and the concept but the adventure wasn't made to handle a mounted combatant. I remember during the entirety of the adventure that I got to use my uber mounted skills ... once.:(
TLO3 wrote: My current planned feat progression is this:
1 Cav 1:Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack
2 Cav 2
3 Cav 3:Ride-by Attack
4 Cav 4
5 Brd 1:Power Attack or Lingering Song
6 BaH 1
7 BaH 2:Leadership
8 BaH 3
9 BaH 4:Boon Companion or feat not picked at 5 depending on whether I take a mount cohort
Seems pretty darn solid! I would go with Power Attack so that you have at least one option when you are not mounted. Power Attack + two-handed weapon + challenge = decent damage output.;)
TLO3 wrote: The rest I'm not sure on. Extra performance sounds okay, but I can't use it and command at the same time and performance requires a Standard action to activate. I kind of feel like I won't be using all my rounds of bardic performance, even on a full day of fighting. I could be wrong though. Extra performance can, indirectly, be used to help fuel your inspiring command ability. An extra 6 rounds is nothing to sneeze at when you're only a level 4 Battle Herald.
TLO3 wrote: Not sure whether I should try to specialize in a secondary fighting style, go for defensive feats or what. TWF for shield bash sounds fun. I was also thinking about weapon focus/dazzling display/shatter defenses line. You need dex 15 to qualify for the two-weapon fighting feat.:( On the brightside I would simply stick with power attack and possibly cleave and have fun hewing through enemies when not mounted. Couple that with weapon focus/dazzling display/shatter defenses and loads of fun should ensue.
TLO3 wrote: We're playing pathfinder only material so no Spell Comp. That said, not really sure what to take for my limited spell selection. Comprehend Languages and Unseen Servant fit thematically. Most other stuff seems like it will be worthless due to low caster levels and spell DCs. Yeah, without access to other material your spell selection is very limited. I would say your selections seem very appropriate for your character.
Cheers
Volf
Volvogg wrote:
Glad you're actually getting a chance to play up one of your character's strengths. I was in an Eberron campaign at one point in which I played a hafling scout[light cavalry variant] riding a dino. I loved the character and the concept but the adventure wasn't made to handle a mounted combatant. I remember during the entirety of the adventure that I got to use my uber mounted skills ... once.:(
Really? That's rough. You talk to your GM about it? So far we've had a good mix of combats. My character really shines in the mounted combat ones, and is still effective in the encounters where other PCs take the spotlight. Sounds like your GM either didn't bother modifying some encounters to give you a chance to use your specialty, or was afraid letting you use your mount would be unbalancing. Shame, really.
Volvogg wrote:
Extra performance can, indirectly, be used to help fuel your inspiring command ability.
How, exactly, does extra perf. fuel IC? The book says you can use IC to fuel inspire courage, but bardic performance cannot fuel commands.
As to power attacking with a 2h weapon, I'm not sure I'll be doing that very often. With my lowish hp I need to keep my AC high. Plus, if I really need the damage output of a 2her I can just grip my longsword with both hands and get the 1.5 str and power attack.
Thanks again for the suggestions. I think I am going to go BH. The only thing I'm really still up in the air about is whether to waste a feat or two on boon companion, or waste my cohort on a mount. I'm eventually going to need a flying mount anyway, once we're higher level. A griffon or pegasus would be nice to have. A humanoid cohort has so much more utility, though. Any thoughts on what the better choice is?
TLO3 wrote: How, exactly, does extra perf. fuel IC? The book says you can use IC to fuel inspire courage, but bardic performance cannot fuel commands. See below:
Pathfinder SRD wrote: All battle heralds may use inspiring command to inspire courage (as the bardic performance ability); bard and battle herald levels stack to determine the bonuses provided by inspire courage. <snip> .... She may use rounds of bardic performance to issue inspiring commands, but not vice versa. Extra performance adds an additional 6 rnds to your bardic music which can then be used to fuel inspiring command [inspire courage] for another 6 rounds if need be (as per above you can use bardic performance to issue inspiring commands).
TLO3 wrote: Thanks again for the suggestions. I think I am going to go BH. The only thing I'm really still up in the air about is whether to waste a feat or two on boon companion, or waste my cohort on a mount. I'm eventually going to need a flying mount anyway, once we're higher level. A griffon or pegasus would be nice to have. A humanoid cohort has so much more utility, though. Any thoughts on what the better choice is? You're welcome. Hopefully some of my nonesensical prattle is helpful.:p In regards to the cohort ... that's a tough one to answer. I would say wait and see. Although, as you aready pointed out, the humanoid cohort would/could be much more versatile.
Cheers
Volf
To get around the mount issue, you can take the Horse Master feat from Ultimate Combat. It allows to count your character level as druid levels for determining your mount's abilities.
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