Here's our party:
All level 3
Human Barbarian
Dwarf Cleric
Human Paladin of Erastil
Half-Elf Druid
Human Abjurer
We want to take him on, but we don't want the campaign to end if we can't do it.
Please no discussions/comments on "Do it or find out". We've been at this for 3 months and I want to move on. Our group is at a serious impass about this.
Thanks!
Level 3 is where you should be.
It'll be a tough fight, but you can survive it if you play it smart. If you don't, then one or two of you might die - but them's the breaks at low level.
Well, I ran the Stag Lord "as written" in the AP and the PCs included:
Half-Elf Sorcerer (Fey Bloodline)
Human Cleric (Gorum)
Human Fighter/Rogue
Human Barbarian
They were all level 3 and managed it without any PC deaths (though two were dropped during the fight).
I don't think you should really have any problems.
The Stag Lord encounter is a tough fight, as the climactic encounter of thefirst book should be. Your group is capable of taking him down. Whether they will or not will depend on your tactics. There are a ton of variables in this encounter and how they play out and how you deal with them will determine your success as much or more than your level. That said, you are high enough in level to give you a good shot. Go for it.
The group I ran it for were third level, and survived without casualties, although there was one near death.
The group of level 3s I run for managed the fight without significant trouble. It took time and they played smart, but certainly doable.
Your group make-up appears to be heavy on survivability (all sorts of please don't kill me in there). Your damage output may be a little below the curve but it won't be noticeable at your level. The real challenge will be coming up with a good plan to actually get to the Stag Lord inside his little fortress. Your GM has some nasty surprises for you I'm sure, but if you guys use your heads it should be a good bit of a thrill.
OR..your groupmates could always go back to Brevoy if putting down bandit lords is a bit too scary for them.
Our Stag Lord battle was:
A 3rd level rogue
a 3rd level barbarian
3rd level paladin
3rd level sorceress
we would have ordinarily gotten massacred in this fight but we pulled everything out of our hats.
subterfuge, bluff, stealth, plenty of run! and lots of Not in the Face!
if anything that fight was the personification of doing everything with your combat actions that was NOT standing toe to toe with the baddy and rolling dice.
we also he significant help from an pretty powerful NPC.
Or i think it would have been a tpk.
We flubbed an attempt at sneaking in and assassinating him, which began combat.
As long as the cleric has Hold Person prepared, you're good to go :P
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You'll be fine. I have 6 players, upped the Stag Lord as indicated in the thread here (thanks Mr Killcoyne) and they came out wihout a death (although 3 came very close) The party of 6 is as follows:
Human Barbarian (invulnerable rager) w/earthbreaker
Half Orc Barbarian (invulnerable rager) w/greataxe
Human Fighter (two hand variant) with greatsword
Dwarven celric of Gorum
Elven Druid with leopard companion
Human alchemist
All level 3.
If you leave it for another level the fight may well be anticlimactic for you.
Divide and conquer is the rule of the day with this encounter.
We havent finished it, but here is where we are at.
Cleric casts silence on himself (I know....) to make him quiet. We sneak up a hill when undead start popping out. We make it past them, but the cleric refuses to leave the undead "alive". We are all still silenced, which makes our wizard and druid somewhat ineffective.
We make it up to a wooden wall and the cleric REFUSES to back away so the druid can wood shape a hole in the wall. After much debate, the cleric moves out of range and the druid does her thing.
We enter, still haven't been spotted yet.
We have no rogue, so the most quietest one of us does the recon. The wizard. He moves around, still silenced and finds the front gate with rooms inside. Now the plan is to circle around and see whats in the back of the castle.
The cleric disagrees.
He proceeds to walk right into the room and alerts 2 guys eating chicken. He attempts to fight them, to no avail.
The Stag Lord and goons have been alerted to our presence and battle commences.
One problem. The cleric refuses.....REFUSES to drop the silence spell. His reason: "If we stay silenced, less people will know we are here." I reply: "We are in combat and half of our forces (wizard & druid) can't really do anything unless we get out of range of you, and I think they know we're here." His reply to me: "Tough. I'm not dropping it."
The DM has him roll a wisdom check. The cleric passes and the DM says "You gut instinct is to drop the spell." Cleric: "Well, my gut is wrong."
We fight 3 goons and the owlbear gets released, not dropped or fought, just released. The Stag Lord, being the Rogue he is, decided to attack the guy who has his back to him. Karma kicks in and LO AND BEHOLD...it's the cleric, who pretty much takes max damage from the arrow. The cleric's next initiative cycle, he tries to cast a cure spell on himself. The DM says it doesn't happen. The cleric goes: "Why???? I'm a cleric, I rolled good on my Spellcraft!!!!" The DM: "You. Never. Dropped. The. Silence. Spell."
That's where we ended until after Christmas.
We havent finished it, but here is where we are at.
Cleric casts silence on himself (I know....) to make him quiet. We sneak up a hill when undead start popping out. We make it past them, but the cleric refuses to leave the undead "alive". We are all still silenced, which makes our wizard and druid somewhat ineffective.
We make it up to a wooden wall and the cleric REFUSES to back away so the druid can wood shape a hole in the wall. After much debate, the cleric moves out of range and the druid does her thing.
We enter, still haven't been spotted yet.
We have no rogue, so the most quietest one of us does the recon. The wizard. He moves around, still silenced and finds the front gate with rooms inside. Now the plan is to circle around and see whats in the back of the castle.
The cleric disagrees.
He proceeds to walk right into the room and alerts 2 guys eating chicken. He attempts to fight them, to no avail.
The Stag Lord and goons have been alerted to our presence and battle commences.
One problem. The cleric refuses.....REFUSES to drop the silence spell. His reason: "If we stay silenced, less people will know we are here." I reply: "We are in combat and half of our forces (wizard & druid) can't really do anything unless we get out of range of you, and I think they know we're here." His reply to me: "Tough. I'm not dropping it."
The DM has him roll a wisdom check. The cleric passes and the DM says "You gut instinct is to drop the spell." Cleric: "Well, my gut is wrong."
We fight 3 goons and the owlbear gets released, not dropped or fought, just released. The Stag Lord, being the Rogue he is, decided to attack the guy who has his back to him. Karma kicks in and LO AND BEHOLD...it's the cleric, who pretty much takes max damage from the arrow. The cleric's next initiative cycle, he tries to cast a cure spell on himself. The DM says it doesn't happen. The cleric goes: "Why???? I'm a cleric, I rolled good on my Spellcraft!!!!" The DM: "You. Never. Dropped. The. Silence. Spell."
If I could post pictures, I would post Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder saying "Never go full retard."
You'll be fine. I have 6 players, upped the Stag Lord as indicated in the thread here (thanks Mr Killcoyne) and they came out wihout a death (although 3 came very close) The party of 6 is as follows:
Human Barbarian (invulnerable rager) w/earthbreaker
Half Orc Barbarian (invulnerable rager) w/greataxe
Human Fighter (two hand variant) with greatsword
Dwarven celric of Gorum
Elven Druid with leopard companion
Human alchemist
All level 3.
If you leave it for another level the fight may well be anticlimactic for you.
seriously? dude! no wonder you came out fine....TWO barbarians?!
OUCH Genova. Sorry things seem to be getting a bit wonky for you guys. That being said there really is no solution for players that insist on playing as stupid as possible with a "go left when everyone screams go right" attitude. Here's hoping the next session finds your cleric with some new divine inspiration to not drag the entire group into his idiot singularity.
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that fight is hard enough with out a stag lord plant in your party!
of course if you have TWO barbarians an a fighter well then,, you can afford stupid clerics.
We havent finished it, but here is where we are at.
Cleric casts silence on himself (I know....) to make him quiet. We sneak up a hill when undead start popping out. We make it past them, but the cleric refuses to leave the undead "alive". We are all still silenced, which makes our wizard and druid somewhat ineffective.
We make it up to a wooden wall and the cleric REFUSES to back away so the druid can wood shape a hole in the wall. After much debate, the cleric moves out of range and the druid does her thing.
We enter, still haven't been spotted yet.
We have no rogue, so the most quietest one of us does the recon. The wizard. He moves around, still silenced and finds the front gate with rooms inside. Now the plan is to circle around and see whats in the back of the castle.
The cleric disagrees.
He proceeds to walk right into the room and alerts 2 guys eating chicken. He attempts to fight them, to no avail.
The Stag Lord and goons have been alerted to our presence and battle commences.
One problem. The cleric refuses.....REFUSES to drop the silence spell. His reason: "If we stay silenced, less people will know we are here." I reply: "We are in combat and half of our forces (wizard & druid) can't really do anything unless we get out of range of you, and I think they know we're here." His reply to me: "Tough. I'm not dropping it."
The DM has him roll a wisdom check. The cleric passes and the DM says "You gut instinct is to drop the spell." Cleric: "Well, my gut is wrong."
We fight 3 goons and the owlbear gets released, not dropped or fought, just released. The Stag Lord, being the Rogue he is, decided to attack the guy who has his back to him. Karma kicks in and LO AND BEHOLD...it's the cleric, who pretty much takes max damage from the arrow. The cleric's next initiative cycle, he tries to cast a cure spell on himself. The DM says it doesn't happen. The cleric goes: "Why???? I'm a cleric, I rolled good on my Spellcraft!!!!" The DM: "You. Never. Dropped. The. Silence. Spell."
That's...
That's priceless. I need more moments like this. :)
We havent finished it, but here is where we are at.
Cleric casts silence on himself (I know....) to make him quiet. We sneak up a hill when undead start popping out. We make it past them, but the cleric refuses to leave the undead "alive". We are all still silenced, which makes our wizard and druid somewhat ineffective.
We make it up to a wooden wall and the cleric REFUSES to back away so the druid can wood shape a hole in the wall. After much debate, the cleric moves out of range and the druid does her thing.
We enter, still haven't been spotted yet.
We have no rogue, so the most quietest one of us does the recon. The wizard. He moves around, still silenced and finds the front gate with rooms inside. Now the plan is to circle around and see whats in the back of the castle.
The cleric disagrees.
He proceeds to walk right into the room and alerts 2 guys eating chicken. He attempts to fight them, to no avail.
The Stag Lord and goons have been alerted to our presence and battle commences.
One problem. The cleric refuses.....REFUSES to drop the silence spell. His reason: "If we stay silenced, less people will know we are here." I reply: "We are in combat and half of our forces (wizard & druid) can't really do anything unless we get out of range of you, and I think they know we're here." His reply to me: "Tough. I'm not dropping it."
The DM has him roll a wisdom check. The cleric passes and the DM says "You gut instinct is to drop the spell." Cleric: "Well, my gut is wrong."
We fight 3 goons and the owlbear gets released, not dropped or fought, just released. The Stag Lord, being the Rogue he is, decided to attack the guy who has his back to him. Karma kicks in and LO AND BEHOLD...it's the cleric, who pretty much takes max damage from the arrow. The cleric's next initiative cycle, he tries to cast a cure spell on himself. The DM says it doesn't happen. The cleric goes: "Why???? I'm a cleric, I rolled good on my Spellcraft!!!!" The DM: "You. Never. Dropped. The. Silence. Spell."
That's...
Great story. Good luck winning from there. Cleric is my nominee for this year's gaming Darwin Awards. In some groups, his own party would have killed him.
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Yeah well things like it hard to win any battle I suppose. And yeah the TWO barbarians and the fighter make me really rethink the encounters. I've taken to raising encounters to 6 player levels by adding numbers, not upping the creature itself. So extra bandits with the Stag Lord, more mites etc. This helps with the path of destruction the barbarians weave. The real problem is the invulnerable rager feature, 2DR doesn't seem like a lot but at this level it makes a real difference. On the plus side they have 1 cleric (St10) and druid (St10), so neither is effective in melee battle (and aren't going down that path) and healing is limited, especially if spread out across the 3 very easy to hit warriors. Of course the alchemist causes headaches of his own - add more critters to an encounter and BAM! out come the bombs...
Our DM ruled that since the cleric dropped, the silence spell went away. Meaning now our wizard and druid could do something. Which they did! Spells went everywhere, most of the Stag Lord's forces were dropped by a Sleep spell and taken out of the fight. Our Barbarian was boosted by a Barksin spell and crit rolled on the owlbear, taking it out of the fight in one hit.
Our paladin used his LoH to get the cleric back up, who then used his channel energy to heal us. The problem is that every time he did that, the Stag Lord attacked him and dropped him. The cleric ended up dying after taking a crit roll and getting almost max damage from the Stag Lord.
Our druid got dropped and managed to stabilize herself with a -14 out of a 15 Con. The barbarian got dropped to -5 which means all we had left was an archer paladin and our wizard.
Our wizard went all out, using wands, scrolls and his spells to attack the Stag Lord and the paladin dropped his bow and used his bastard sword to go toe to toe with him.
We ended up winning, barely. The paladin was down to 3 HP and our wizard was out of memorized spells. Reviving our 2 compatriots was paramount, so we used the cure potions from the Stag Lord to do so.
However,
In the middle of the "Battle for our Game", our former dwarf player decides to make a new PC. He announces his stats RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLE.
(In no particular order) 18, 17, 17, 16, 16, 15
No one saw him roll dice. The DM made him wait until we were done and then he called shenanigans. Our player was very upset and said that most of us had an 18.
20 minutes later, he re-rolled stats. >.<
The rest of the party was going after our fat lootz. We raided the Stag Lord, his bedroom and went to the basement and tangled with a druid.
My lovely wife comes up with the idea of taking the dwarf's stuff ("He's not gonna need it!!) and passing it out/selling it/keeping it for later.
The former dwarf said no, he already sold it to get his new halfling bard toys. We said "You're DEAD. You have no control over what happens to your dwarf."
The DM compromised and said we get all the dwarf's stuff and the player still gets his halfling's stuff.
But wait!! There's more.
Our DM rolled on a random treasure chart he made, and came up with some extra stuff for us.
One of these items was a short sword. Our wizard used "Detect Magic" to see if any of it was magical and the sword (as were other items) was.
The former dwarf said he wanted it for his halfling. Our wizard responded with: We don't know who you are. Why would we give you a magical sword? And you aren't there anyway!
*Sigh*
Gee, I thought my hippy cleric of Sarenrae was dumb. Your dwarven cleric guy is confirmed for that guy.
And yes, my cleric has managed to KS every significant baddie in the game thus far. With the Stag Lord, as my GM already mentioned, her Hold Person made all the difference. It allowed the N(Evil but shhhh! it was a secret) rogue, under her discerning eye, to beat him over the head with a sap, knock him out, and tie him up.
Most of the credit for winning that battle goes to Akiros Ismort, though, because he was bathed in the warmth of Sarenrae's Holy Light and saw his truth, and decided he'd much rather not confirm his critical against Her cleric.
Staggie is one of the few baddies she actually didn't argue with the group's zeal for "lawful" executions. Mostly because she took a shinning to Svetlana pretty early on, and she'd just killed the druid so she was really bummed.
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But wait!! There's more.
Our DM rolled on a random treasure chart he made, and came up with some extra stuff for us.
One of these items was a short sword. Our wizard used "Detect Magic" to see if any of it was magical and the sword (as were other items) was.
The former dwarf said he wanted it for his halfling. Our wizard responded with: We don't know who you are. Why would we give you a magical sword? And you aren't there anyway!
*Sigh*
I think it's pretty clear that the person playing the dwarf is very immature. This is high school stuff he's pulling.
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One of the great things about this AP in general and this fight in particular is that there is no one way of doing it. For every group that attempts it, it’s gone down a different way. So many variables have been written into the encounter, this is just about as “sandbox” as you can possibly get.
I mean seriously…they have personalities written up for each of the cannon-fodder bandits so you can ask the horses about who they are.
You say that “try it and find out” is not an answer you’re looking for, but it’s the only genuinely helpful answer specific to you and your group that you can get, aside from the mechanical one, which is that you are a 5-man 3rd lvl team, which is of-level and 1-man up on what the encounter was designed for.
Beyond that, anything goes. Things can go wrong, things can go right. Only actions/dice and the group/GM will tell.
I spent weeks on the forum prepping for the fight and the way it went down in our group was so utterly unique--like nothing I read or saw here. The Stag Lord himself was coup-de-graced in his back room, but the chaos that was going on in the fort was a thing of beauty for the ages.
Good luck!
EDIT: Just read the rest of the thread, and yep…pretty sure nobody did it the way you guys did, lol!
As long as the cleric has Hold Person prepared, you're good to go :P
I HAD that, but used it on the "Big Thing", to which it failed because I thought it was Humanoid....apparently not. ¬_¬
Most of our party are out of all spells. The Druid just has Barkskin left, the Summoning Sorcerer has no Summons left and my guy has Enthrall and Murderous Command left. Oh and he ran out of all channels (he's a Manipulating Charm Cleric who favours Tactics and Manipulation over healing), along with the other Cleric who won't channel as he doesn't have Selective Channeling.
The session ended with Akiross disappearing for the end and the Stag Lord turning up.
The Druid, his Wolf, the Cleric-cy Cleric and
I have a +3 to hit Crossbow ready with a Flaming Bolt, but I think my plan is to run to the edge, fire at him, give my random staff I found to the Sorceress (hoping she has Use Magic Device) to cast on the Stag Lord, then run across the roof with the Fighter to get behind and flank the Stag Lord where I might Enthrall him with speech and ask him to join the party in a drinking session....where someone can coup de grace him.
Ah, if only the party listened to my suggestion of finding a lone guard or Lieutenant to Charm into killing the Stag Lord as he slept.
They wanted to fight him themselves, so that was that.
Now look what kind of situation they've gotten us into. Good luck to us next Thursday! :p
We just finished off the Stag Lord Las week. It was an .... interesting fight. We had a ranger, fighter, cleric, and master summoner (me), all level 3. The ranger has a 16 strength and a mighty composite Longbow and rapid shot, so his targets die quickly. The fighter is sword & board, and the cleric has a tower shield, heavy armor, and a mace.
The fight ...
We had the password, amulet, and the Stag Lord's booze, and talked our way into the compound. The cleric has strength and protection domains and has been whining about how we never get the opportunity to buff before the fights. I agree, because I'd love a few rounds to get some summons out.
So we have the cleric disguised with some dust of illusion and about 40 minutes left. We're in the main room and the Stag Lord is in his room, drinking heavily. I move to the entrance to the fort figuring I can get a few summoning rounds in if I can find a quiet spot. The moment I'm away from the owl bear cage the cleric drops bless and starts screaming to attack. I'm kind of stunned and ask him what the heck he was thinking. His response "It's late, I'm tired and want to get this over with and go home." Thanks. Really.
So the fight starts. We drop two enemies in the first round and start in on the named characters. One of them opens the owl bear cage. One of the reasons that I wanted some buff time is because my eidolon is starting to really fall behind (as a master summoner, she won't gain level 2 abilities until I hit level 4), so I wanted a chance to dismiss her and go crazy with summoned beasties. No such luck. So she moves to block the owlbears 's path while I summon a lemure to fight beside her. The owl bear takes her out in its first round. The fighter steps in and proceeds to get mauled in the next round. At this point, the Stag Lord enters and nearly floors the cleric with one shot.
The fighter got one good hit on the owl bear and fell back. The owl bear misses the lemure on 2 claws and doesn't manage to beat the DR on the bite. I stick a small earth elemental beside the lemure and the two of them not only survive the whole fight, but kill the owl bear while the rest of us focus on Staggy! I was pretty happy about that.
The Stag Lord proceeds to repeatedly puncture the cleric at range. Akios defects and closes into melee on the Stag Lord. The ranger is taking out all the other enemies who drop in. I manage to summon 2 riding dogs in one round and they flank the Stag Lord. The melee types heal up, close in, and that's the end of the Stag Lord. Then the DM has a fit as he realizes that the Stag Lord had two attacks per round and he didn't realize it. Oops. We forgive him, tho. :-)
Downstairs, we didn't see the badger / druid hiding on the ceiling until about the third round. One grease spell later and he falls to the floor and is swiftly eliminated.
Then we all go home and go to sleep because we're old. Aftermath will be dealt with next session. Speaking of sleep, I need to stop reading the forums in bed.
Since you have five people, it should be easy as long as you have even a rudimentary plan of attack.