|
The Eidolon base for of Biped lists 'claws' as a free evolution, but claws can be applied to either legs or arms. Some abilities or conditions trigger only off of leg claws vs arm claws.
For example, does the slam evolution text assume arm claws, or does it only apply if the player chose to have arm claws instead of leg claws?
Are the claws assumed to apply to the arms or is it the player's choice?
Slam (Ex)
An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam attack. This attack is a primary attack. The slam deals 1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs 1 evolution point). This evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution.
The slam must go the arm limb. This means that if you want claws you must put them on the legs, if the arm already has claws.
There would be no reason to force a player to take the arms if the player did not need them for the slam.
Arms are useful if you go for a weapon-wielding Eidolon or even Eidolon that is not stricktly combat-orientd and instead you plan on it taking some manual actions (like having Eidolon with Disable Device skill when no Rogue/Rogue-equivalent is in party). Also if you want multiclawed Eidolon you have to take arms as claws can be applied to legs only once.
Free claws evolution granted to bipeds does not specify to which limbs it apply and evolution description allows it to be applied to legs once. Thus it is viable choice to apply them to legs - but I must admit that I hadn't thought of it until KilroySummoner mentioned it in another thread.
The Eidolon base for of Biped lists 'claws' as a free evolution, but claws can be applied to either legs or arms. Some abilities or conditions trigger only off of leg claws vs arm claws.
For example, does the slam evolution text assume arm claws, or does it only apply if the player chose to have arm claws instead of leg claws?
Are the claws assumed to apply to the arms or is it the player's choice?
Did this ever get answered?
Indeed, the text for Claws is vague but somewhat implies claws must be on legs! Yet the text for Slam very clearly states that claws can be on arms.
It does not imply that... It says it can be taken multiple times, but you must have enough limbs, and it can only be applied to legs once.
If it could only be legs, and you could only put it on legs once, it wouldn't say you can take it multiple times :P
The claws from the biped base form can be on legs or arms. (though obviously if they are on legs you wouldn't be able to get any more on other legs, etc)
It does not imply that... It says it can be taken multiple times, but you must have enough limbs, and it can only be applied to legs once.
Ah. So an eidolon with two pairs of arms and two pairs of legs could have claws on both arm-pairs but only one leg-pair. Got it.
I suppose an equally careful reading specifies that the same eight-limbed eidolon could instead take claws on both arm-pairs and then take Slam with both leg-pairs simply because it has limbs(arms). Probably not what was intended, but I cannot see how it is overpowered compared to other leg attack options.
Hmm, yeah I am pretty sure that Slam is only intended to be on arms, but I guess the way it is worded could be taken that way...
But yeah, there are better uses for legs.
And an equally careful reading specifies that the same eight-limbed eidolon could instead take Hooves on both arm-pairs and then take Slam with both leg-pairs.
This is starting to make the Push Me Pull You look like a sensible beast.
Another question... Can the same leg-pair be used for both Slam and Rake?
Again, probably not wise, but is it possible?
Yeah I think all of that is just ambiguity in wording, and that it is meant to be hooves only on legs, slam only on arms, etc.
Well, in case anyone was curious, I present what can happen if you allow Slam on leg attacks (and the GM allows a Synthesist to take Extra Evolution, which I've heard is still up for debate)...
(It is really boring. No flight, no grab, no natural armor boosts. But it does a lot of damage. It could make an interest monster that turns out to be an intelligent villain.)
THUMPER THE SLAM SYNTHESIST
** level 1, 3, 5, and 9 feats are for Extra Evolution **
LEVELS 1-3 (THREE MAX NATURAL ATTACKS)
L1 {evolution points 3+1=4} Limbs (arms) [2], Slam [1], Pounce [1] - At first level can charge to do bite d6 and slam d8
L2 {4+1=5} Slam [1] - At second level can charge to do bite d6 and two slams d8
L3 {5+2=7} Improved Damage (Slam) x2 [2] - At third level can charge to do bite d6 and two slams 2d6
LEVELS 4-8 (FOUR MAX NATURAL ATTACKS)
L4 {7+2=9} Slam [1], Improved Damage (Slam) [1] - At fourth level can charge to do bite d6 and three slams 2d6
L5 {8+3=11} Energy Attacks [2] - now all attacks do extra d6 energy damage
L6 {9+3=12} Magic Attacks [1] - now all attacks count as magic
L7 {10+3=13} Mount [1] - use seventh level feat to get Sohei follower who rides the Synthesist
L8 {11+3=14} Improved Natural Armor [1]
LEVELS 9-13 (FIVE MAX NATURAL ATTACKS)
L9 {13+4=17} Large [4] - drop the Improved Natural Armor and become Large