If you use Wildshape and change size category, do you apply the size modifier to attacks and AC, or do you leave them as they are?
The Beast Shape spell (which Wildshape tells you to refer to) does not mention altering your attacks or AC based on your size, whereas Enlarge Person does. So that's confusing!
If you use Wildshape and change size category, do you apply the size modifier to attacks and AC, or do you leave them as they are?
The Beast Shape spell (which Wildshape tells you to refer to) does not mention altering your attacks or AC based on your size, whereas Enlarge Person does. So that's confusing!
If you look under transmutation (polymorph) it mentions that. I'm still not sure if, like for beast shape 2, you get both the bonuses/penalties listed in the spell AND the ones described in transmutation (polymorph).
The polymorph effect changes some of your stats. Your size bonuses/penalties always change when your size does. Keep in mind that every creature, regardless of size, has size modifiers. Medium creatures are the baseline, so they have a 0.
Hope that helps.
So you get the size bonus/penalties from changing size AND the bonus/penalties from beast shape description?
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If you use Wildshape and change size category, do you apply the size modifier to attacks and AC, or do you leave them as they are?
The Beast Shape spell (which Wildshape tells you to refer to) does not mention altering your attacks or AC based on your size, whereas Enlarge Person does. So that's confusing!
Yes you do.
You didn't read the Polymorph section (page) in the Magic section.PHB p211/212
You get potentially 3 bonuses:
1) Size change bonus that ALL spells grant.
2) Bonuses granted in the spell (like in Beast Shape II.
3) Stat bonuses/penalties if your size started out less than Small or larger than Medium.
So yes, you get both the size changes to Attack and AC (but not stats) and the stat bonuses called out in the spell.
3) Stat bonuses/penalties if your size started out less than Small or larger than Medium.
Right. All pathfinder polymorph spells are built on the base assumption that your character is either small or medium sized. If you're bigger or smaller than that you must first use the size chart in the polymorph section to set your size to small (tiny or smaller) or medium (if large or larger) before adjusting anything with the polymorph spell. Then figure out your new size bonus to attack, AC, stealth, & combat maneuvers based on your polymorphed size.
Edit: Spelling.
There is a Size Bonus/Penalty to attack rolls and AC (reversed for maneuver attacks/ CMD) that applies to all creatures, depending on their current Size Category. If your Size Category changes FOR WHATEVER REASON, this modifier will also change.
There is no ´standard´ modifier to Stats just for changing to a certain Size, if an Effect that changes your Size is meant to change your Stats, it will give you specific Stat modifiers (classed as ´Size Bonuses´ for stacking purposes). As mentioned by others, if normally you´re not Small/Medium, there is a Table which ´adjusts´ these Stat Bonuses.
The terminology here is is somewhat confusing, because YOU STILL GET THIS ´SIZE´ BONUS TO STATS (from Polymorph Effects) EVEN IF YOU DON´T CHANGE SIZE CATEGORIES, i.e. you change into the form of a creature the same size as you normally are (Human->Orc). ¨Size Bonus¨ is simply the name of the Bonus Category - That happens to cover two ´areas´: the direct effects from Size Category (attack/AC/CMB/CMD), and everything else that could receive a Size Bonus (mainly Stats) - though obviously Stats themselves have a cascade effect on the same things effected by Size Category.
Okay that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up!