No we've had reptiles, and now mammals, the insects should be next.Go back a bit. Insects and fish had their big day in the Paleozoic Era, before the dinosaurs. They're just very good at hanging on.
Party pooper now I have to come up with a different Kingdom...or Order..or Class...or Phlegm :D
Actually, it is that quick. Homo Sapiens have only been around for about 200,000 years, and the "common ancestor" between us, gorillas and chimpanzees is conjectured around 4-8 million years ago.
Human/chimp line splits from gorilla line about 10 MA (million years ago) -- yes, chimps are much more closely related to humans than they are to gorillas. Chimps split from human line about 5-7 MA. Homo sapiens appears around 0.5 MA; Homo sapiens sapiens (modern man) about 0.2 MA.
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Actually, it is that quick. Homo Sapiens have only been around for about 200,000 years, and the "common ancestor" between us, gorillas and chimpanzees is conjectured around 4-8 million years ago.Human/chimp line splits from gorilla line about 10 MA (million years ago) -- yes, chimps are much more closely related to humans than they are to gorillas. Chimps split from human line about 5-7 MA. Homo sapiens appears around 0.5 MA; Homo sapiens sapiens (modern man) about 0.2 MA.
According to the Oxford Journals, the current estimation is chimps at 6 Ma and gorillas at 7 Ma. Orangutans are at 13 Ma, Old World Monkeys at 23 Ma and New World Monkeys at 33 Ma.
The Homo genus appeared at about .5 Ma, but the earliest record of Homo Sapiens as a species is about .2 Ma.
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There are a lot of steps between humans and dawn apes. Present day apes don't even have opposable thumbs. Our closest ancestors - Neanderthal - were around for about a million years. Our evolutionary path had opposable thumbs for millions of years before we had the modern brain.Actually, it is that quick. Homo Sapiens have only been around for about 200,000 years, and the "common ancestor" between us, gorillas and chimpanzees is conjectured around 4-8 million years ago. As for who's more evolved, is it us surrounded by our technological toys, stress, wars, famine and pestilence or our ape cousins who spend all day eating, sleeping and making baby apes?Evolution isn't that quick. I'm guessing that it would take at least 4-5 million years for one of the greater apes to get to our intelligence level(if they evolved in that direction). However, if we helped it along like on Planet of the Apes....Trying not to get involved but.... one correction we didn't just evolve from apes we ARE apes. Humans are apes, like wolves are canines, like lions are felines, we are apes.Right. We also didn't evolve from the current other apes. Instead all of us apes evolved from common ancestors. And all of us apes continue our slow trek down the evolutionary process. Maybe in a million years, chimps and gorillas will be piloting starships and we will be a forgotten species tossed on the trashheap of history.
Yeah... Gorilla's have opposable thumbs, as well as opposable big toes. In fact, most apes do. Including Orangutans and Chimpanzees.
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No we've had reptiles, and now mammals, the insects should be next.Go back a bit. Insects and fish had their big day in the Paleozoic Era, before the dinosaurs. They're just very good at hanging on.
Technically speaking, fish never lost their dominance. They still sit toward the top of the food chain through out the oceans with only moderate competition from mollusks and cetaceans for the top spots.
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There are a lot of steps between humans and dawn apes. Present day apes don't even have opposable thumbs. Our closest ancestors - Neanderthal - were around for about a million years. Our evolutionary path had opposable thumbs for millions of years before we had the modern brain.Actually, it is that quick. Homo Sapiens have only been around for about 200,000 years, and the "common ancestor" between us, gorillas and chimpanzees is conjectured around 4-8 million years ago. As for who's more evolved, is it us surrounded by our technological toys, stress, wars, famine and pestilence or our ape cousins who spend all day eating, sleeping and making baby apes?Evolution isn't that quick. I'm guessing that it would take at least 4-5 million years for one of the greater apes to get to our intelligence level(if they evolved in that direction). However, if we helped it along like on Planet of the Apes....Trying not to get involved but.... one correction we didn't just evolve from apes we ARE apes. Humans are apes, like wolves are canines, like lions are felines, we are apes.Right. We also didn't evolve from the current other apes. Instead all of us apes evolved from common ancestors. And all of us apes continue our slow trek down the evolutionary process. Maybe in a million years, chimps and gorillas will be piloting starships and we will be a forgotten species tossed on the trashheap of history.
Opposable thumbs are older than you think. Darwinius had opposable thumbs roughly 47 million years ago. You really can't go much more "dawn" than that...
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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Technically speaking, fish never lost their dominance. They still sit toward the top of the food chain through out the oceans with only moderate competition from mollusks and cetaceans for the top spots.No we've had reptiles, and now mammals, the insects should be next.Go back a bit. Insects and fish had their big day in the Paleozoic Era, before the dinosaurs. They're just very good at hanging on.
Definitely. Sharks have evolved very little from their prehistoric ancestors.
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Definitely. Sharks have evolved very little from their prehistoric ancestors.Technically speaking, fish never lost their dominance. They still sit toward the top of the food chain through out the oceans with only moderate competition from mollusks and cetaceans for the top spots.No we've had reptiles, and now mammals, the insects should be next.Go back a bit. Insects and fish had their big day in the Paleozoic Era, before the dinosaurs. They're just very good at hanging on.
Don't even get me started about the Coelocanth. :D
As for who's more evolved, is it us surrounded by our technological toys, stress, wars, famine and pestilence or our ape cousins who spend all day eating, sleeping and making baby apes?
The more evolved creature is the one that can be put into a inhospitable environment and survive by modifying it's environment.
Put a human at the South Pole and he builds an artificial environment to create a habitable area to live. Put a monkey at the South Pole and he freezes.
Tell a human you want to step foot on the moon and he gets a team together who can design, build, test, and eventually use an artificial tube, filled with explosives to break away from the gravity well of his planet of birth to set foot on another heavenly body. The monkey will just throw poop at you.
Tell a human you want a cure for a disease and he will start learning about microbiology and chemistry with the goal of eventually finding a cure. The monkey will cough and eventually die.
Greg
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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Don't even get me started about the Coelocanth. :DDefinitely. Sharks have evolved very little from their prehistoric ancestors.Technically speaking, fish never lost their dominance. They still sit toward the top of the food chain through out the oceans with only moderate competition from mollusks and cetaceans for the top spots.No we've had reptiles, and now mammals, the insects should be next.Go back a bit. Insects and fish had their big day in the Paleozoic Era, before the dinosaurs. They're just very good at hanging on.
<After a skim through the Wiki article>
Cool.|
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As for who's more evolved, is it us surrounded by our technological toys, stress, wars, famine and pestilence or our ape cousins who spend all day eating, sleeping and making baby apes?The more evolved creature is the one that can be put into a inhospitable environment and survive by modifying it's environment.
Put a human at the South Pole and he builds an artificial environment to create a habitable area to live. Put a monkey at the South Pole and he freezes.
Tell a human you want to step foot on the moon and he gets a team together who can design, build, test, and eventually use an artificial tube, filled with explosives to break away from the gravity well of his planet of birth to set foot on another heavenly body. The monkey will just throw poop at you.
Tell a human you want a cure for a disease and he will start learning about microbiology and chemistry with the goal of eventually finding a cure. The monkey will cough and eventually die.
Greg
Gah, but I don't want to do any of those things. I just want to eat, sleep, and well... hehehehe.
According to the Oxford Journals, the current estimation is...
The Glazko & Nei paper you linked was published in 2003, which is "recent" but not "current." My understanding is that a fair amount of work on DNA clocking had been done since then, but I can't seem to put my fingers on the article I want. I do notice that Satta et al. (2004) support the 7 MA divergence of humans and gorillas, but then Jensen-Seaman and Hooper-Boyd (2008) turn around place the human-chimpanzee split between 6 and 8 MA.
Gah, but I don't want to do any of those things. I just want to eat, sleep, and well... hehehehe.
What one is capable of, and what one actually does can be two different things. (He says, posting to Paizo during work hours....)
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Gah, but I don't want to do any of those things. I just want to eat, sleep, and well... hehehehe.What one is capable of, and what one actually does can be two different things. (He says, posting to Paizo during work hours....)
Monkeys are capable of writing the complete work of Shakespeare if given enough time.
;)
Many of the random serial murders committed in the U.S. have probably been done by religious individuals, but I would NOT in any way use that to try and claim that religion and serial murder are compatible.
I am not sure what you mean by "compatible" here, the fact that many serial murderers were also religious does mean those are compatible (capable of easy interaction), just as not being religious and being a serial murderer is also compatible. I would say they are independent (religous nature and serial murder motivation) and not dependent or causational.
I think it has been stated before that even if we didn't have any concept of religion, there would still be people that would "hear voices" they would just attribute it to other entities (aliens, government agencies, etc).
And I would agree that scientific thought and religious thought are different though methods, but that isn't a bad thing. Heck I have a hobby of playing games where I have do a lot of fantastical imagining and at the same time dealing numerical computations. Two very different mental processes. I hope people aren't stopping themselves from dreaming about "What if..." because they are so focused on studying "What is..." I guess I would rather enjoy "Luminious beings are we, not this crude matter." than "Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells and communicates with the Force."
Gah, but I don't want to do any of those things. I just want to eat, sleep, and well... hehehehe.As for who's more evolved, is it us surrounded by our technological toys, stress, wars, famine and pestilence or our ape cousins who spend all day eating, sleeping and making baby apes?The more evolved creature is the one that can be put into a inhospitable environment and survive by modifying it's environment.
Put a human at the South Pole and he builds an artificial environment to create a habitable area to live. Put a monkey at the South Pole and he freezes.
Tell a human you want to step foot on the moon and he gets a team together who can design, build, test, and eventually use an artificial tube, filled with explosives to break away from the gravity well of his planet of birth to set foot on another heavenly body. The monkey will just throw poop at you.
Tell a human you want a cure for a disease and he will start learning about microbiology and chemistry with the goal of eventually finding a cure. The monkey will cough and eventually die.
Greg
Well humans also made artifical implants making the, well you know, perhaps a bit more pleasing. As well as creating drugs so that humans don't necessarily have to stop due to some acting up piping.
EDIT: Though, I'm not sure if the actually examples are all that meaningful. I mean, if you took someone out of an indigenous tribe in the amazon and dropped them in the artic, they probably wouldn't have much more chance of surviving than monkey. Likewise for disease, or going to the moon. The difference is that our capacity to "stand on the shoulders of giants" and to work together we can do much more than any one of us could do alone.
Many of the random serial murders committed in the U.S. have probably been done by religious individuals, but I would NOT in any way use that to try and claim that religion and serial murder are compatible.I am not sure what you mean by "compatible" here, the fact that many serial murderers were also religious does mean those are compatible (capable of easy interaction), just as not being religious and being a serial murderer is also compatible. I would say they are independent (religous nature and serial murder motivation) and not dependent or causational.
I think it has been stated before that even if we didn't have any concept of religion, there would still be people that would "hear voices" they would just attribute it to other entities (aliens, government agencies, etc).
And I would agree that scientific thought and religious thought are different though methods, but that isn't a bad thing. Heck I have a hobby of playing games where I have do a lot of fantastical imagining and at the same time dealing numerical computations. Two very different mental processes. I hope people aren't stopping themselves from dreaming about "What if..." because they are so focused on studying "What is..." I guess I would rather enjoy "Luminious beings are we, not this crude matter." than "Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells and communicates with the Force."
Don't say that last bit around my wife. She gets ugly when it's mentioned. It RUINED the series for her and her father.
EDIT: Though, I'm not sure if the actually examples are all that meaningful. I mean, if you took someone out of an indigenous tribe in the amazon and dropped them in the artic, they probably wouldn't have much more chance of surviving than monkey. Likewise for disease, or going to the moon. The difference is that our capacity to "stand on the shoulders of giants" and to work together we can do much more than any one of us could do alone.
Of course, you're right. My implication was to refer to the human species on the whole, and not at individuals. But I agree, our greatest asset is our ability to build on the work of our predecessors to achieve great (and sometimes not so great) things.
As a slightly related aside, anybody else as anxious as I am to hear what NASA has to say tomorrow? I'm sure I'm building myself up for a huge let down, but my mind is racing at the possible things they may unveil.
Greg
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Gah, but I don't want to do any of those things. I just want to eat, sleep, and well... hehehehe.As for who's more evolved, is it us surrounded by our technological toys, stress, wars, famine and pestilence or our ape cousins who spend all day eating, sleeping and making baby apes?The more evolved creature is the one that can be put into a inhospitable environment and survive by modifying it's environment.
Put a human at the South Pole and he builds an artificial environment to create a habitable area to live. Put a monkey at the South Pole and he freezes.
Tell a human you want to step foot on the moon and he gets a team together who can design, build, test, and eventually use an artificial tube, filled with explosives to break away from the gravity well of his planet of birth to set foot on another heavenly body. The monkey will just throw poop at you.
Tell a human you want a cure for a disease and he will start learning about microbiology and chemistry with the goal of eventually finding a cure. The monkey will cough and eventually die.
Greg
Well humans also made artifical implants making the, well you know, perhaps a bit more pleasing. As well as creating drugs so that humans don't necessarily have to stop due to some acting up piping.
EDIT: Though, I'm not sure if the actually examples are all that meaningful. I mean, if you took someone out of an indigenous tribe in the amazon and dropped them in the artic, they probably wouldn't have much more chance of surviving than monkey. Likewise for disease, or going to the moon. The difference is that our capacity to "stand on the shoulders of giants" and to work together we can do much more than any one of us could do alone.
Three cheers for implants!
hip-hip HURRAY!
hip-hip HURRAY!
I forgot what we were doing.
Three cheers for implants!
Ugh. Do you guys actually LIKE them? Boobs are like Coca-Cola: CBTRT.
Three cheers for implants!Ugh. Do you guys actually LIKE them?
Now that they have the new silly string ones, yeah. Fascinating technology and science behind them, and they make boobs several times larger.
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There are a lot of steps between humans and dawn apes. Present day apes don't even have opposable thumbs. Our closest ancestors - Neanderthal - were around for about a million years. Our evolutionary path had opposable thumbs for millions of years before we had the modern brain.Actually, it is that quick. Homo Sapiens have only been around for about 200,000 years, and the "common ancestor" between us, gorillas and chimpanzees is conjectured around 4-8 million years ago. As for who's more evolved, is it us surrounded by our technological toys, stress, wars, famine and pestilence or our ape cousins who spend all day eating, sleeping and making baby apes?Evolution isn't that quick. I'm guessing that it would take at least 4-5 million years for one of the greater apes to get to our intelligence level(if they evolved in that direction). However, if we helped it along like on Planet of the Apes....Trying not to get involved but.... one correction we didn't just evolve from apes we ARE apes. Humans are apes, like wolves are canines, like lions are felines, we are apes.Right. We also didn't evolve from the current other apes. Instead all of us apes evolved from common ancestors. And all of us apes continue our slow trek down the evolutionary process. Maybe in a million years, chimps and gorillas will be piloting starships and we will be a forgotten species tossed on the trashheap of history.
Neanderthals are not our ancestors, they were an evolutionary dead end.
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Now that they have the new silly string ones, yeah. Fascinating technology and science behind them, and they make boobs several times larger.Three cheers for implants!Ugh. Do you guys actually LIKE them?
The FDA banned the silly string implants in the US. :( I do not know if they are available elsewhere.
The FDA banned the silly string implants in the US. :( I do not know if they are available elsewhere.Now that they have the new silly string ones, yeah. Fascinating technology and science behind them, and they make boobs several times larger.Three cheers for implants!Ugh. Do you guys actually LIKE them?
I *BELIEVE* Maxi Mounds still has hers, or had them up until recently. I think she got the surgery outside of the US.
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The FDA banned the silly string implants in the US. :( I do not know if they are available elsewhere.Now that they have the new silly string ones, yeah. Fascinating technology and science behind them, and they make boobs several times larger.Three cheers for implants!Ugh. Do you guys actually LIKE them?
GAH!
All I can picture now is a girl with huge breasts shooting silly string out her nipples.
...
I still don't know if I find this arousing or not.
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The FDA banned the silly string implants in the US. :( I do not know if they are available elsewhere.Now that they have the new silly string ones, yeah. Fascinating technology and science behind them, and they make boobs several times larger.Three cheers for implants!Ugh. Do you guys actually LIKE them?GAH!
All I can picture now is a girl with huge breasts shooting silly string out her nipples.
...
I still don't know if I find this arousing or not.
I would say not.
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Gah, but I don't want to do any of those things. I just want to eat, sleep, and well... hehehehe.What one is capable of, and what one actually does can be two different things. (He says, posting to Paizo during work hours....)Monkeys are capable of writing the complete work of Shakespeare if given enough time.
;)
I'll need you to prove that before I believe it. :p
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I'll need you to prove that before I believe it. :pGah, but I don't want to do any of those things. I just want to eat, sleep, and well... hehehehe.What one is capable of, and what one actually does can be two different things. (He says, posting to Paizo during work hours....)Monkeys are capable of writing the complete work of Shakespeare if given enough time.
;)
You're one of THEM!
*sicks monkey goon squad on TOZ*
Three cheers for implants!Ugh. Do you guys actually LIKE them?
Yes... but without is good too. The key word here is "boobs". ;-)
And I would agree that scientific thought and religious thought are different though methods, but that isn't a bad thing. Heck I have a hobby of playing games where I have do a lot of fantastical imagining and at the same time dealing numerical computations. Two very different mental processes. I hope people aren't stopping themselves from dreaming about "What if..." because they are so focused on studying "What is..."
The key difference here is that the RPG hobby isn't trying to impose their "morals" on the rest of the population, denying people equal rights under the law, dishing out observable wrong information or withholding items that will help combat diseases and vira.
I *BELIEVE* Maxi Mounds still has hers, or had them up until recently. I think she got the surgery outside of the US.The FDA banned the silly string implants in the US. :( I do not know if they are available elsewhere.Now that they have the new silly string ones, yeah. Fascinating technology and science behind them, and they make boobs several times larger.Three cheers for implants!Ugh. Do you guys actually LIKE them?
For an even bigger (he he) example of string implants, I'd point to Chelsea Charms instead.
The key difference here is that the RPG hobby isn't trying to impose their "morals" on the rest of the population, denying people equal rights under the law, dishing out observable wrong information or withholding items that will help combat diseases and vira.
And I would agree that scientific thought and religious thought are different though methods, but that isn't a bad thing. Heck I have a hobby of playing games where I have do a lot of fantastical imagining and at the same time dealing numerical computations. Two very different mental processes. I hope people aren't stopping themselves from dreaming about "What if..." because they are so focused on studying "What is..."
Nor is every religious person, what is your point?
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For an even bigger (he he) example of string implants, I'd point to Chelsea Charms instead.
That actually looks ugly to me. Like two grapefruits tacked to a lamppost.
That actually looks ugly to me. Like two grapefruits tacked to a lamppost.
Amen. A girl I know just got hers done (in the U.S.; not string), "not too big!" was her quote, but to me she now looks absurd; I almost want to laugh at her, maybe ask when she's going to attach a satellite dish to her head while she's at it.
Like when you see a girl who thinks that caking on eye makeup until she looks like a racoon makes her "attractive." Hint: it doesn't.
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That actually looks ugly to me. Like two grapefruits tacked to a lamppost.Amen. A girl I know just got hers done (in the U.S.; not string), "not too big!" was her quote, but to me she now looks absurd; I almost want to laugh at her, maybe ask when she's going to attach a satellite dish to her head while she's at it.
Like when you see a girl who thinks that caking on eye makeup until she looks like a racoon makes her "attractive." Hint: it doesn't.
Hey Kirth go you know they actually found Jimmy Hoffa. When they finally took of Tammy Fay Bakers makeup there he was.
Edit: Most people won't get that joke, and for those that do, yes I know I'm old :P
Nor is every religious person, what is your point?The key difference here is that the RPG hobby isn't trying to impose their "morals" on the rest of the population, denying people equal rights under the law, dishing out observable wrong information or withholding items that will help combat diseases and vira.
And I would agree that scientific thought and religious thought are different though methods, but that isn't a bad thing. Heck I have a hobby of playing games where I have do a lot of fantastical imagining and at the same time dealing numerical computations. Two very different mental processes. I hope people aren't stopping themselves from dreaming about "What if..." because they are so focused on studying "What is..."
No, not everyone, just what seems to be the overwhelming majority, supported by the official policies of their various denominations (the obvious case would be the subject of this thread, of course).
Otherwise the world would look a lot different than what it currently looks like.|
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ENOUGH!!!
Some people think the Pope is a boob.
Some people think Liliths Thrall is a boob for wondering if the Pope was a boob.
Some theists think the atheists are boobs for not seeing what is so plan to them.
Some atheists think the theists are boobs for seeing things.
And some where along the way we realized that we all like boobs. Can't we leave it there? :D
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It's not really hard - if you don't like the thread don't enter it.ENOUGH!!!
Some people think the Pope is a boob.
Some people think Liliths Thrall is a boob for wondering if the Pope was a boob.
Some theists think the atheists are boobs for not seeing what is so plan to them.
Some atheists think the theists are boobs for seeing things.
And some where along the way we realized that we all like boobs. Can't we leave it there? :D
Smile. No harm intended. :)
And some where along the way we realized that we all like boobs. Can't we leave it there? :D
*raises hand*
I don't like boobs and I'm not sorry to say so. I am, in fact, boobophobic.
No, not everyone, just what seems to be the overwhelming majority, supported by the official policies of their various denominations (the obvious case would be the subject of this thread, of course).
Otherwise the world would look a lot different than what it currently looks like.It's not really the overwhelming majority. There are -many- liberal Christians who promote the social good as long as they don't have to actually do anything. I think these are the majority of Christians. They're just invisible. Then there are Christians who actively promote the social good. They just don't get much attention by the media.
The Christians who promote/support hateful/harmful policies and whine about getting "attacked" when they get called on it - I don't think they represent the majority of Christians, even if they get the majority of the attention.
It's just disheartening that they don't get called on it from within their own ranks. If most "everyday" religious people really disagrees with those who set the policy for their religion, they should say so. But they don't, thus they enable them instead by keeping quiet, by lending a seeming silent support from the majority.
Apathy seems to be the name of the game. But if these socalled liberal religious people really cared about the social good, then they should do something about it. Otherwise it's just empty words on their part.|
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That's ok Sam, just leaves an extra helping for those of us who infatuated with 'em.
And some where along the way we realized that we all like boobs. Can't we leave it there? :D*raises hand*
I don't like boobs and I'm not sorry to say so. I am, in fact, boobophobic.
That does me no good. I've got all the boobs I can handle!