Bishops say Pope still anti-condom 2


Off-Topic Discussions

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The Exchange

Freehold DM wrote:
With respect to individuals and organizations as well as my philosophy stated in the (now closed) thread, I have to call the ratio as 60/40 Individuals to Organizations. I simply can't condemn an entire group for the actions of certain people within it.

One point of contention, when you bash Catholicism, you are attacking its adherents. Not the priests, not the Pope. The people are the body of the Church. You are attacking me. Not only me but several other members of these boards. Many of whom donate time, money and talents to fight disease poverty and hunger in ways you can't fathom. It makes me sad to be part of this community when such bigotry is allowed or otherwise insinuated to be "interesting."


Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
<cracks finger like a hacker about to go into the Pentagon LAN>

So, are you going to regal us with your master of L33T?

Ashe Ravenheart wrote:


Okay, I'm getting involved in this because I'm sick of hearing from a good number of people that they don't want to come around to these fine boards because of attitudes like this.

There are a lot of other threads on this board if you don't want to talk about what is being done and not being done to help the HIV/AIDS pandemic.

Ashe Ravenheart wrote:


LT, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to convince a bunch of random people on the internet that your outlook is the best for humanity? Or that we should "rise up and topple" the Pope to get policy changed in order that millions may live? What exactly is your purpose?

You could ask the same thing of anyone who has spoken out against immorality and ignorance - Martin Luthor King Jr, Harvey Milk, etc. I'm not those people, but all that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

It is our duty as human beings to promote the social good. We don't do that by shutting up about this kind of crap.

Ashe Ravenheart wrote:


Yes, the AIDS epidemic in Africa and other third world nations is a horrible fact of life at this moment. But you know what's even WORSE? The fact that HIV/AIDS only accounts for 2% of child deaths in Africa. 14% of child deaths in Africa are caused by Diarrhoea.

Diarhea is being treated the best that we know how. There are policies being pushed which are preventing HIV/AIDS from being treated the best we know how. So, they aren't equivalent.

Ashe Ravenheart wrote:


But, if you want to change the world, you don't do it by talking about it on an internet forum. Go out, go to school, travel to Africa, educate the people on how to prevent HIV/AIDS and (this part is really important) RESPECT their beliefs. Instead of trying to change what they believe, work with those beliefs to find a different solution. Because, the funny thing is, you wanting to change what they believe in is the same reason we're in this mess in the first place

In today's world, the Internet will reach the most people. I'm already engaged in various volunteer activities (I recently moved to a new state, but I'm a member of PFLAG, will soon be volunteering at a local school, am working on holding classes on Internet safety at the local library, have volunteered time at a homeless shelter, and am putting together a fund raiser to help social causes). All I'm asking for is to spend a little bit of time, when I'm not doing that, raising awareness about the importance of ABC in handling HIV/AIDS in Africa - to get people thinking about it - so that they can take a few minutes out of their day and push their leaders to do something about it.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Crimson Jester wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
With respect to individuals and organizations as well as my philosophy stated in the (now closed) thread, I have to call the ratio as 60/40 Individuals to Organizations. I simply can't condemn an entire group for the actions of certain people within it.
One point of contention, when you bash Catholicism, you are attacking its adherents. Not the priests, not the Pope. The people are the body of the Church. You are attacking me. Not only me but several other members of these boards. Many of whom donate time, money and talents to fight disease poverty and hunger in ways you can't fathom. It makes me sad to be part of this community when such bigotry is allowed or otherwise insinuated to be "interesting."

CJ,

I apologise if this is heated but you have managed to hit one of my 'non-rational response topics. So apologies if this offends.

Spoiler:

But I think you'll find I can fathom a great deal more than you give me credit given the time and money (more money than time, I admit) to good causes. And all that without a religion telling me to do it. Get your superiority complex back in its box. I am just as f!$&ing moral as you, despite not having my imaginary friend telling me what to do.

That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.


LilithsThrall wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:

Kinda like -

Demonization of Pope + Demonization of anyone that supports him (Catholics) = I'm in conformance with board standards of civility + non-offensive.

Oh, I get it. If you (OP) ignore the Pope's role in the Catholic Church then it's OK. And it helps if you (OP) slice and dice your words, then stray from the OP, into a spinoff of the often less-than-civil CRD (general posters)

This thread = offensive + pointless + inflammatory

- Catholic guy that actually agrees that condoms help

Once more, attacking a policy is not the same as attacking the person who holds the policy.

I do see how it could be taken that way - if the person holding the policy is deliberately holding it knowing that that policy is resulting in the needless and horrible deaths of millions of people, than it can be taken as an attack of that person. But never blame on malice what can be blamed on ignorance.
And I don't believe protesting the needless and awful deaths of millions of people is pointless. I'm saddened to hear that you do.

Emphasis MINE -

And where exactly do I take that position? What's pointless is the MANNER you're (and some others) going about it. Alienating a number of readers and Paizo customers right off the get go certainly seems to be pointless to this ignorant person. Word parsing and thinly veiled hostility towards religion seems pointless and inflammatory. Pointless also are the segway posts that mirror the arguments in the CRD thread. More pointless is the thought that thread (IN ITS CURRENT FORM) will influence changes in people's ability to challenge religious leaders to change their policies. In my limited knowledge of papal operation, the common people play little role in Church policy. It has a small role, and world events SLOWLY shape it, but they are very steeped in tradition. Do I wish it was more current? Yes, and no. Is this the real argument here?

Again, the anti-religion arguments have been done before. Again and again. Not by you, as you're still fairly new here, but by others. They simply throw gasoline on hot spots.

So pointless A (your inflammatory characterization of me) does not equal Pointless B (my version). Seems like the definition of ignorance can be applied here. But there's a cure for that.


Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:

Kinda like -

Demonization of Pope + Demonization of anyone that supports him (Catholics) = I'm in conformance with board standards of civility + non-offensive.

Oh, I get it. If you (OP) ignore the Pope's role in the Catholic Church then it's OK. And it helps if you (OP) slice and dice your words, then stray from the OP, into a spinoff of the often less-than-civil CRD (general posters)

This thread = offensive + pointless + inflammatory

- Catholic guy that actually agrees that condoms help

Once more, attacking a policy is not the same as attacking the person who holds the policy.

I do see how it could be taken that way - if the person holding the policy is deliberately holding it knowing that that policy is resulting in the needless and horrible deaths of millions of people, than it can be taken as an attack of that person. But never blame on malice what can be blamed on ignorance.
And I don't believe protesting the needless and awful deaths of millions of people is pointless. I'm saddened to hear that you do.

<cracks finger like a hacker about to go into the Pentagon LAN>

Okay, I'm getting involved in this because I'm sick of hearing from a good number of people that they don't want to come around to these fine boards because of attitudes like this.

LT, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to convince a bunch of random people on the internet that your outlook is the best for humanity? Or that we should "rise up and topple" the Pope to get policy changed in order that millions may live? What exactly is your purpose?

Yes, the AIDS epidemic in Africa and other third world nations is a horrible fact of life at this moment. But you know what's even WORSE? The fact that HIV/AIDS only accounts for 2% of child deaths in Africa. 14% of child deaths in Africa are caused by Diarrhoea.

If you're posting this information on the boards because you want to raise...

+1. This really needs a LIKE button.


Paul Watson wrote:


That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.

The Pope is an educated, literate man. Furthermore he is the absolute master of his organization, able to order it to do anything and see it done based on no more than his own fiat. He's got no excuse. Reducing opposition to condoms, instead of eliminating it and going over to advocacy for them, is just rearranging the furniture. He's a good thirty years and countless AIDS-related deaths too late.


Paul Watson wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
With respect to individuals and organizations as well as my philosophy stated in the (now closed) thread, I have to call the ratio as 60/40 Individuals to Organizations. I simply can't condemn an entire group for the actions of certain people within it.
One point of contention, when you bash Catholicism, you are attacking its adherents. Not the priests, not the Pope. The people are the body of the Church. You are attacking me. Not only me but several other members of these boards. Many of whom donate time, money and talents to fight disease poverty and hunger in ways you can't fathom. It makes me sad to be part of this community when such bigotry is allowed or otherwise insinuated to be "interesting."

CJ,

I apologise if this is heated but you have managed to hit one of my 'non-rational response topics. So apologies if this offends.

** spoiler omitted **

That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.

Hence, killing this thread and burying the OP. It can reborn as an ABC thread without the gasoline. I'd really like the thinly veiled religion bashing to come to an end on the Paizo boards.


Samnell wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:


That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.
The Pope is an educated, literate man. Furthermore he is the absolute master of his organization, able to order it to do anything and see it done based on no more than his own fiat. He's got no excuse. Reducing opposition to condoms, instead of eliminating it and going over to advocacy for them, is just rearranging the furniture. He's a good thirty years and countless AIDS-related deaths too late.

I must disagree here. The Pope is the head of his organization, true, but I don't buy him as absolute master- the cardinals underneath him have a lot of sway, and the last time there was a sizable disagreement(that did involve sex, as well, at least in my opinion re: indulgences, the acts of King Henry VIII) there was a split in the church that resultsed in first the creation, and then the acknowledgement of a separate religious entity that still claimed to worship the same god. I think he has less excuses and more good reasons. However, I'm glad to see that there has been SOME change- an organization like the Catholic Church can't change overnight. All people can do- those within and those without- is continue to encourage the changes we would wish to see, meet opposition with dignity and courtesy, and do their best to keep standing up for what they believe in and fighting their version of the good fight without shoving thumbs into eyes.


Samnell wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:


That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.
The Pope is an educated, literate man. Furthermore he is the absolute master of his organization, able to order it to do anything and see it done based on no more than his own fiat. He's got no excuse. Reducing opposition to condoms, instead of eliminating it and going over to advocacy for them, is just rearranging the furniture. He's a good thirty years and countless AIDS-related deaths too late.

In the real world, do you see that happening? Anytime soon? Yeah, we can wish about it being different, and even gripe about it, but I don't see it changing.

I'm happy that they loosened their stance on condoms. A small gesture, but one that at least is in the right direction to save lives. But, as a Church, they won't give up their efforts to save souls. To them, as a Church, they believe the souls to be more important. It's kinda what they do. :)


Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:

Kinda like -

Demonization of Pope + Demonization of anyone that supports him (Catholics) = I'm in conformance with board standards of civility + non-offensive.

Oh, I get it. If you (OP) ignore the Pope's role in the Catholic Church then it's OK. And it helps if you (OP) slice and dice your words, then stray from the OP, into a spinoff of the often less-than-civil CRD (general posters)

This thread = offensive + pointless + inflammatory

- Catholic guy that actually agrees that condoms help

Once more, attacking a policy is not the same as attacking the person who holds the policy.

I do see how it could be taken that way - if the person holding the policy is deliberately holding it knowing that that policy is resulting in the needless and horrible deaths of millions of people, than it can be taken as an attack of that person. But never blame on malice what can be blamed on ignorance.
And I don't believe protesting the needless and awful deaths of millions of people is pointless. I'm saddened to hear that you do.

<cracks finger like a hacker about to go into the Pentagon LAN>

Okay, I'm getting involved in this because I'm sick of hearing from a good number of people that they don't want to come around to these fine boards because of attitudes like this.

LT, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to convince a bunch of random people on the internet that your outlook is the best for humanity? Or that we should "rise up and topple" the Pope to get policy changed in order that millions may live? What exactly is your purpose?

Yes, the AIDS epidemic in Africa and other third world nations is a horrible fact of life at this moment. But you know what's even WORSE? The fact that HIV/AIDS only accounts for 2% of child deaths in Africa. 14% of child deaths in Africa are caused by Diarrhoea.

If you're posting this information on the boards because you want to raise...

I only disagree with the child death angle- I think in Africa, deaths from AIDS and HIV and complications thereof primarily affect adults. Although there are certainly orphans left behind.

Liberty's Edge

Freehold DM wrote:
Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:

Kinda like -

Demonization of Pope + Demonization of anyone that supports him (Catholics) = I'm in conformance with board standards of civility + non-offensive.

Oh, I get it. If you (OP) ignore the Pope's role in the Catholic Church then it's OK. And it helps if you (OP) slice and dice your words, then stray from the OP, into a spinoff of the often less-than-civil CRD (general posters)

This thread = offensive + pointless + inflammatory

- Catholic guy that actually agrees that condoms help

Once more, attacking a policy is not the same as attacking the person who holds the policy.

I do see how it could be taken that way - if the person holding the policy is deliberately holding it knowing that that policy is resulting in the needless and horrible deaths of millions of people, than it can be taken as an attack of that person. But never blame on malice what can be blamed on ignorance.
And I don't believe protesting the needless and awful deaths of millions of people is pointless. I'm saddened to hear that you do.

<cracks finger like a hacker about to go into the Pentagon LAN>

Okay, I'm getting involved in this because I'm sick of hearing from a good number of people that they don't want to come around to these fine boards because of attitudes like this.

LT, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to convince a bunch of random people on the internet that your outlook is the best for humanity? Or that we should "rise up and topple" the Pope to get policy changed in order that millions may live? What exactly is your purpose?

Yes, the AIDS epidemic in Africa and other third world nations is a horrible fact of life at this moment. But you know what's even WORSE? The fact that HIV/AIDS only accounts for 2% of child deaths in Africa. 14% of child deaths in Africa are caused by Diarrhoea.

If you're posting this information on the boards

...

Well, yeah, of course you disagree with me. We've already established why... ;)


Emperor7 wrote:
Samnell wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:


That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.
The Pope is an educated, literate man. Furthermore he is the absolute master of his organization, able to order it to do anything and see it done based on no more than his own fiat. He's got no excuse. Reducing opposition to condoms, instead of eliminating it and going over to advocacy for them, is just rearranging the furniture. He's a good thirty years and countless AIDS-related deaths too late.

In the real world, do you see that happening? Anytime soon? Yeah, we can wish about it being different, and even gripe about it, but I don't see it changing.

I'm happy that they loosened their stance on condoms. A small gesture, but one that at least is in the right direction to save lives. But, as a Church, they won't give up their efforts to save souls. To them, as a Church, they believe the souls to be more important. it's kinda what they do. :)

Which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Still, I have always believed that while the church is there to worry about my soul, it is up to me, and indeed all of us, to worry about the world of the flesh. We should make it a better place for those that come after us, even as those within the four walls work(usually) to ease the transition from one world to another.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

I like traffic lights.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

What the world needs now are invisible fish that sleep in the air.


*walks into thread, leaves a steaming pile on the carpet*


Humor cools blood. Wrath spills it. Let's all try to crack a smile in the interest of keeping our more tasteful fluids inside of us.


Abyssal Hounds wrote:
*walks into thread, leaves a steaming pile on the carpet*

*rolls in steaming pile, then jumps on the sofa*


Smurf?


urgh

1 free wish to anyone who cleans up this mess


EMU the Sparkly Vampyre wrote:
Smurf?

*jumps off sofa and humps blue toy*


Yankee Poodle wrote:
EMU the Sparkly Vampyre wrote:
Smurf?
*jumps off sofa and humps blue toy*

*sees himself in mirror as another blue toy and begins barking*

YAP! YAP! YAP!


*collapses from the strain*


Hey! Poodle punt toy!

*punts poodle*


Jack Hammer wrote:

Hey! Poodle punt toy!

*punts poodle*

YIP!


Freehold DM wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:
Samnell wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:


That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.
The Pope is an educated, literate man. Furthermore he is the absolute master of his organization, able to order it to do anything and see it done based on no more than his own fiat. He's got no excuse. Reducing opposition to condoms, instead of eliminating it and going over to advocacy for them, is just rearranging the furniture. He's a good thirty years and countless AIDS-related deaths too late.

In the real world, do you see that happening? Anytime soon? Yeah, we can wish about it being different, and even gripe about it, but I don't see it changing.

I'm happy that they loosened their stance on condoms. A small gesture, but one that at least is in the right direction to save lives. But, as a Church, they won't give up their efforts to save souls. To them, as a Church, they believe the souls to be more important. it's kinda what they do. :)

Which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Still, I have always believed that while the church is there to worry about my soul, it is up to me, and indeed all of us, to worry about the world of the flesh. We should make it a better place for those that come after us, even as those within the four walls work(usually) to ease the transition from one world to another.

Another post that needs a LIKE button. Can the 1st 8 or 9 pages of this thread be buried in the Cyber Cemetery?

Probably not. It's just a matter of time before the flaming begins anew.


I like cheese!


I'm so confused.


Confuse-Us wrote:
I'm so confused.

There's a cure for that!


Emperor7 wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:
Samnell wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:


That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.
The Pope is an educated, literate man. Furthermore he is the absolute master of his organization, able to order it to do anything and see it done based on no more than his own fiat. He's got no excuse. Reducing opposition to condoms, instead of eliminating it and going over to advocacy for them, is just rearranging the furniture. He's a good thirty years and countless AIDS-related deaths too late.

In the real world, do you see that happening? Anytime soon? Yeah, we can wish about it being different, and even gripe about it, but I don't see it changing.

I'm happy that they loosened their stance on condoms. A small gesture, but one that at least is in the right direction to save lives. But, as a Church, they won't give up their efforts to save souls. To them, as a Church, they believe the souls to be more important. it's kinda what they do. :)

Which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Still, I have always believed that while the church is there to worry about my soul, it is up to me, and indeed all of us, to worry about the world of the flesh. We should make it a better place for those that come after us, even as those within the four walls work(usually) to ease the transition from one world to another.

Another post that needs a LIKE button. Can the 1st 8 or 9 pages of this thread be buried in the Cyber Cemetery?

Probably not. It's just a matter of time before the flaming begins anew.

As the second Narnia movie taught us, respites are important.


*sighs wistfully*


Too many aliases!

*breaks out broom and dustpan, and begins sweeping up aliases*


The Board Warden wrote:

Too many aliases!

*breaks out broom and dustpan, and begins sweeping up aliases*

Even smurfs? *sniff*


Abyssal Hounds wrote:
*walks into thread, leaves a steaming pile on the carpet*

*pulls out Pokedex*

Abyssal Hound:
A uncommen pokemon that uses
its own excrement as an attack.

SWEET!
GOTTA CATCH EM ALL!!!
*Madly starts throwing pokeballs*


Crazed Pokemon Fan wrote:
Abyssal Hounds wrote:
*walks into thread, leaves a steaming pile on the carpet*

*pulls out Pokedex*

Abyssal Hound:
A uncommen pokemon that uses
its own excrement as an attack.

SWEET!
GOTTA CATCH EM ALL!!!
*Madly starts throwing pokeballs*

BALLS!

*runs back into thread*

Liberty's Edge

Freehold DM wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:
Samnell wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:


That non-rational response having been said, this thread is getting into pure Catholic bashing. Especially as the Pope has clarified the position to reduce the opposition to condoms. As someone who fully sup[ports the ABC approach, this is a good thing and should be supported rather than beaten over the head with for not going further in the 'right' direction.
The Pope is an educated, literate man. Furthermore he is the absolute master of his organization, able to order it to do anything and see it done based on no more than his own fiat. He's got no excuse. Reducing opposition to condoms, instead of eliminating it and going over to advocacy for them, is just rearranging the furniture. He's a good thirty years and countless AIDS-related deaths too late.

In the real world, do you see that happening? Anytime soon? Yeah, we can wish about it being different, and even gripe about it, but I don't see it changing.

I'm happy that they loosened their stance on condoms. A small gesture, but one that at least is in the right direction to save lives. But, as a Church, they won't give up their efforts to save souls. To them, as a Church, they believe the souls to be more important. it's kinda what they do. :)

Which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Still, I have always believed that while the church is there to worry about my soul, it is up to me, and indeed all of us, to worry about the world of the flesh. We should make it a better place for those that come after us, even as those within the four walls work(usually) to ease the transition from one world to another.

Another post that needs a LIKE button. Can the 1st 8 or 9 pages of this thread be buried in the Cyber Cemetery?

Probably not. It's just a matter of time before the flaming begins anew.

As the second Narnia movie taught us, respites are important.

That and also mice are formidable swordsmen.


Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
That and also mice are formidable swordsmen.

Little guys were frakking terrifying. LOVED the fact that they didn't kill the cat, I'd like to think that was more out of respect and a desire to tweak whiskers than anything else.


Freehold DM wrote:
Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
That and also mice are formidable swordsmen.
Little guys were frakking terrifying. LOVED the fact that they didn't kill the cat, I'd like to think that was more out of respect and a desire to tweak whiskers than anything else.

Mice have honor when it comes to sleeping foes. =D

EDIT:Altho tweaking whiskers is always a bonus no matter what.


I have an alias and I'm not afraid to use it! Just stand back now. These things have a tendency to attract other aliases.

*considers opening up small box at the bottom of his pack, marked Pandora*


Emperor7 wrote:

I have an alias and I'm not afraid to use it! Just stand back now. These things have a tendency to attract other aliases.

*considers opening up small box at the bottom of his pack, marked Pandora*

Went out with a lady named Pandora some time ago, and I can tell you that she really knew how to throw a party.


Emperor7 wrote:

I have an alias and I'm not afraid to use it! Just stand back now. These things have a tendency to attract other aliases.

*considers opening up small box at the bottom of his pack, marked Pandora*

AAARRRRR!!!!!!!!! DOOOOET.


I'd do it butt I have a wedgie.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
That and also mice are formidable swordsmen.
Little guys were frakking terrifying. LOVED the fact that they didn't kill the cat, I'd like to think that was more out of respect and a desire to tweak whiskers than anything else.

I am really looking forward to the next movie.

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