Bishops say Pope still anti-condom 2


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*swims into tread*

I can taste the blood for miles. Where's the meat?


Justin Franklin wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
That and also mice are formidable swordsmen.
Little guys were frakking terrifying. LOVED the fact that they didn't kill the cat, I'd like to think that was more out of respect and a desire to tweak whiskers than anything else.
I am really looking forward to the next movie.

As much as I hate Harry Potter, the movies were a tradition for my wife and I around holiday season and we were loathe to break it. We look forward to this becoming a new, more palatable tradition(at least for me, anyway).


And there was this guy, and he was like all offensive and stuff, and he wouldn't listen to anyone else, 'cause he was , like all hopped up on some thing he called a soapbox, and he wouldn't get off, or like let anyone else have a turn, so everybody else had to get their own soapbox, and pretty soon, the whole thread was full of soapboxes and they were shouting at each other, so i said, 'Hey! We have all these soapboxes and we can have a derby!' Then this mean guy he said 'Go away' all tough and like, so I started to cry then he laughed at me, which made me cry some more, but it was a fake cry, 'cause I was actually laughing so hard that I cried and I wetted my diaper too.

Can anyone change me? I think I pooted too.


Jiminy Sunwake wrote:

And there was this guy, and he was like all offensive and stuff, and he wouldn't listen to anyone else, 'cause he was , like all hopped up on some thing he called a soapbox, and he wouldn't get off, or like let anyone else have a turn, so everybody else had to get their own soapbox, and pretty soon, the whole thread was full of soapboxes and they were shouting at each other, so i said, 'Hey! We have all these soapboxes and we can have a derby!' Then this mean guy he said 'Go away' all tough and like, so I started to cry then he laughed at me, which made me cry some more, but it was a fake cry, 'cause I was actually laughing so hard that I cried and I wetted my diaper too.

Can anyone change me? I think I pooted too.

*sniffs diaper*

YIPE!


Bi-Polar Poodle - Happy wrote:
Jiminy Sunwake wrote:

And there was this guy, and he was like all offensive and stuff, and he wouldn't listen to anyone else, 'cause he was , like all hopped up on some thing he called a soapbox, and he wouldn't get off, or like let anyone else have a turn, so everybody else had to get their own soapbox, and pretty soon, the whole thread was full of soapboxes and they were shouting at each other, so i said, 'Hey! We have all these soapboxes and we can have a derby!' Then this mean guy he said 'Go away' all tough and like, so I started to cry then he laughed at me, which made me cry some more, but it was a fake cry, 'cause I was actually laughing so hard that I cried and I wetted my diaper too.

Can anyone change me? I think I pooted too.

*sniffs diaper*

YIPE!

GRRRRRR!


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
That and also mice are formidable swordsmen.
Little guys were frakking terrifying. LOVED the fact that they didn't kill the cat, I'd like to think that was more out of respect and a desire to tweak whiskers than anything else.
I am really looking forward to the next movie.
As much as I hate Harry Potter, the movies were a tradition for my wife and I around holiday season and we were loathe to break it. We look forward to this becoming a new, more palatable tradition(at least for me, anyway).

I kind of hope they finish the series, although I always found the 5th book to be the weakest for my taste.


Justin Franklin wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
That and also mice are formidable swordsmen.
Little guys were frakking terrifying. LOVED the fact that they didn't kill the cat, I'd like to think that was more out of respect and a desire to tweak whiskers than anything else.
I am really looking forward to the next movie.

I really have to give them kudos for sticking with it and cranking them out. I hope they do the Magician's Nephew, it was always one of my favorites.


Bi-Polar Poodle - Not so Happy wrote:
Bi-Polar Poodle - Happy wrote:
Jiminy Sunwake wrote:

And there was this guy, and he was like all offensive and stuff, and he wouldn't listen to anyone else, 'cause he was , like all hopped up on some thing he called a soapbox, and he wouldn't get off, or like let anyone else have a turn, so everybody else had to get their own soapbox, and pretty soon, the whole thread was full of soapboxes and they were shouting at each other, so i said, 'Hey! We have all these soapboxes and we can have a derby!' Then this mean guy he said 'Go away' all tough and like, so I started to cry then he laughed at me, which made me cry some more, but it was a fake cry, 'cause I was actually laughing so hard that I cried and I wetted my diaper too.

Can anyone change me? I think I pooted too.

*sniffs diaper*

YIPE!

GRRRRRR!

I thought the 1st puppy was nice, then he changed all-of-a-sudden like, into that mean doggie. I don't like mean doggies. They bark and growl, and bite, and sometimes they bury you in the yard, but that's not always so bad, as long as you can breathe, 'cause there are worms and rocks and stuff in the ground, and sometimes this stuff they call fert-i-lizer, I mean what a funny name, it's almost like fart-i-lizer, and farts are funny, especially the smelly ones, 'cause they make people's eyes water, but I call them Tears of Joy because I make people happy. And we all like to be happy, don't we? Sometimes I'm not happy, and that's not a good thing. Like when my diaper is soaked and it gets cold. That's not very comfortable you know.

Still waiting for a diaper change here! Helloooooooo....


Sowing the seeds of discord. I like it!


Freehold DM wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
That and also mice are formidable swordsmen.
Little guys were frakking terrifying. LOVED the fact that they didn't kill the cat, I'd like to think that was more out of respect and a desire to tweak whiskers than anything else.
I am really looking forward to the next movie.
As much as I hate Harry Potter, the movies were a tradition for my wife and I around holiday season and we were loathe to break it. We look forward to this becoming a new, more palatable tradition(at least for me, anyway).

We're movie hounds, so both are traditions for us. :)


Hey, know what would be fun? Let's turn the lights off and see if it gets pitch black. C'mon, turn 'em off. You know you're curious.


Freehold DM wrote:
I must disagree here. The Pope is the head of his organization, true, but I don't buy him as absolute master- the cardinals underneath him have a lot of sway, and the last time there was a sizable disagreement(that did involve sex, as well, at least in my opinion re: indulgences, the acts of King Henry VIII) there was a split in the church that resultsed in first the creation, and then the acknowledgement of a separate religious entity that still claimed to worship the same god.

Who appoints the cardinals? The Pope. When he does he do it? Whenever he wants to. There is no degree of opposition that the cardinals can offer which, as a matter of canon law, the Pope cannot override. He can just write laws without consulting them if he wishes. The Vatican isn't a modern democracy. If the Pope is more concerned about institutional unity than human lives, then I don't think I can damn him any more thoroughly than he has himself. I mean, there are lives at stake here. Losing market share is an acceptable loss.

Quote:


However, I'm glad to see that there has been SOME change- an organization like the Catholic Church can't change overnight.

But it can. It can turn on a dime, spin loops, and the Pope can rewrite its laws whenever he wants. He could reserve the papacy to dogs if he wanted to. He has the power. He can use it. He could make preaching against condoms an excommunication-worthy offense. He could require there be a free condom giveaway in every church in the world. He could declare ex cathedra the new sacrement of putting on a condom and having premarital sex. He's the sovereign of the church, the Vicar of Christ on earth. His hands are not tied unless he wants them to be tied.

I will agree with you that the church is an exceptionally ossified, dogmatic, inflexible organization. But the guy at the top has the power to change that. He thus also has the responsibility for not changing it. He's not disabled because he's the pontiff and thus we have to make all kinds of accommodations and allowances.

Freehold DM wrote:


However, I'm glad to see that there has been SOME change- an organization like the Catholic Church can't change overnight. All people can do- those within and those without- is continue to encourage the changes we would wish to see, meet opposition with dignity and courtesy, and do their best to keep standing up for what they believe in and fighting their version of the good fight without shoving thumbs into eyes.

It's better than nothing, but not by a lot. Reduction of opposition to condoms would do less harm, but wouldn't go over into doing good. Eliminating it, at the least, would be necessary.

Where's that leave honest, decent Catholics who rightly loathe the policy and want it done away with? As you have rightly noted, the grassroots have essentially no power in the Catholic church. Any change would probably require at the very least centuries. We can reasonably foreclose seeing it in our lifetimes. So I think you're stuck. You've got the options of either staying in the church and being an accomplice, if perhaps a rather remote one, to the preventable deaths you deplore, or you have to leave it.

I know it sucks, but you wouldn't want to be part of a political party that had this kind of policy with the same staggering mortal consequences. You wouldn't want to be part of a fraternal organization that did the same. If you hold the church in high esteem, then you can't just say the leaders are a gaggle of old, out of touch fools and better can't be hoped for. That would be pretty contemptuous, and a bit patronizing. Surely one expects better of any organization one wants to be a part of. I know I do, and I'm not even a Catholic. :)


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Hamburger?


Hamburgler?


Humbug?


*Flies through*


*Flies after the puffin*


Doom on you!


Emperor7 wrote:


In the real world, do you see that happening? Anytime soon? Yeah, we can wish about it being different, and even gripe about it, but I don't see it changing.

The successor to Saint Peter can't be expected to do better? I agree that he's not going to do the right thing. In fact he'll probably keep fighting it until he drops and his successor will probably do the same. (And his successor and his successor and his successor...) I don't expect the Catholic Church to do the right thing when it comes to human sexuality. Quite the opposite.

But that doesn't mean they're right to fail or that they could not possibly do otherwise. They believe in free will. It is not unfair to thus hold them accountable for their choices. You (I'm not Catholic) deserve better leadership. Everyone does. It's not going to appear out of nowhere because we keep giving the existing crop mulligan after mulligan.

Emperor7 wrote:


I'm happy that they loosened their stance on condoms. A small gesture, but one that at least is in the right direction to save lives. But, as a Church, they won't give up their efforts to save souls. To them, as a Church, they believe the souls to be more important. It's kinda what they do. :)

I agree with you, more or less. That seems to me to be exactly the thought process that the hierarchy went through: Any amount of misery, suffering, and death in this life is irrelevant compared to the eternal hereafter, be it torturous and feared or blissful and sought-after. So who cares if those deaths are preventable? God will sort it out.

The problem with that, I would think even for believers, is that it's pretty much as callous as one could be to the actual people in need.


Samnell wrote:
stuff

You exaggerate and simplify the power of the Pope. In theory, he could order that type of turnaround, but it would go against every grain of faith/training/tradition he has in him, and it would never become Church Law. In the real world.

The 'guilt' argument is equally flawed. Legally or in sin. By not providing condoms they are guilty of the consequences. To your credit you did cite is as a REMOTE association.

So, stepping away from hypotheticals, is the Catholic Church 'guilty' of 'sin' for its opposition to abortion, etc? Shall we create yet another thread to hash over these issues? We seem to that all too often on these boards.

Head back to ABC and its merits and we'll all find a bit of common ground, without the aggravation. :)


Moooooo?


*chases after Mad Brahmin with fork and steak knife*

Me hungry!


Something's wrong with that meat.

HHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLLL!


Lets' sing a song!

I love you, you love me....


That ain't like the teddy I wear... ;)


Aww, who's gonna clean that up?

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Samnell wrote:

Where's that leave honest, decent Catholics who rightly loathe the policy and want it done away with? As you have rightly noted, the grassroots have essentially no power in the Catholic church. Any change would probably require at the very least centuries. We can reasonably foreclose seeing it in our lifetimes. So I think you're stuck. You've got the options of either staying in the church and being an accomplice, if perhaps a rather remote one, to the preventable deaths you deplore, or you have to leave it.

If you hold the church in high esteem, then you can't just say the leaders are a gaggle of old, out of touch fools and better can't be hoped for. That would be pretty contemptuous, and a bit patronizing. Surely one expects better of any organization one wants to be a part of. I know I do, and I'm not even a Catholic. :)

Hey, Samnell. Here's the reply of a devout Catholic: as a matter of faith, I believe that the Catholic Church is fundamentally correct about how the universe works on a supermatural level. A person who believes in Church doctrine but leaves the Church because current Catholics are sinful or disgraceful, is betraying that truth. (In the same way, anyone claiming to stay in the Church, even though he rejects credal dogma, is betraying what he understands to be the truth.)

As a matter of principle, the Pope is not the head of the Church; Christ is. And every Catholic, from His Holiness down to the parish priest, from cardinals down to the children in the pews, is trying to follow Christ's will. We disagree on how to do that, and we are a collection of fools and sinners. But we also have faith that, if we sincerely ask for guidance, the Spirit of God will not allow us to turn completely away from the light.

If we feel the Majestarium is mistaken, the correct response is to pray for them, not to abandon the sacramental Church.


Has anyone see my Nucleo-Thread-Eliminator 2010? How about my Galvatronic-Thread-Rerouter-V*?


Random Alias wrote:
Aww, who's gonna clean that up?

*roots thru puddle of brahmin barf, gobbling up tasty morsels*

*Heads over to RA and begins licking his face*


Guy 1: I am thinking of dipping my penis in acid, should I cover it with something first?
Guy 2: Ahhhhh, maybe you shouldn't dip your penis in acid at all.
*next day*
Guy 1: My penis melted off, because I didn't cover it when I dipped it in acid. It is your fault!
Guy 2: Wait, how is it my fau..
Guy 3: You didn't tell him to cover it did you?
Guy 2: What I said was not to dip it ...
Guy 3: I'll take that as a no! See it is your fault.
Guy 2: Now wait a minute, how is it my fault?
Guy 3: You told him last week that he shouldn't cover his penis when he wanted to pee right?
Guy 2: Well, yeah. I mean that would be stu...
Guy 3: So obviously you are saying covering your penis is bad, so what conclusion was he suppose to draw if you don't tell him to cover it before dipping it in acid.
Guy 2: I don't know, maybe not dipping it in at all like I sai...
Guy 3: Exactly, you wanted him to dip it in without protection. It is your fault.


Yankee Poodle wrote:
Random Alias wrote:
Aww, who's gonna clean that up?

*roots thru puddle of brahmin barf, gobbling up tasty morsels*

*Heads over to RA and begins licking his face*

PUNT!

Dark Archive

pres man wrote:

Guy 1: I am thinking of dipping my penis in acid, should I cover it with something first?

Guy 2: Ahhhhh, maybe you shouldn't dip your penis in acid at all.
*next day*
Guy 1: My penis melted off, because I didn't cover it when I dipped it in acid. It is your fault!
Guy 2: Wait, how is it my fau..
Guy 3: You didn't tell him to cover it did you?
Guy 2: What I said was not to dip it ...
Guy 3: I'll take that as a no! See it is your fault.
Guy 2: Now wait a minute, how is it my fault?
Guy 3: You told him last week that he shouldn't cover his penis when he wanted to pee right?
Guy 2: Well, yeah. I mean that would be stu...
Guy 3: So obviously you are saying covering your penis is bad, so what conclusion was he suppose to draw if you don't tell him to cover it before dipping it in acid.
Guy 2: I don't know, maybe not dipping it in at all like I sai...
Guy 3: Exactly, you wanted him to dip it in without protection. It is your fault.

So womens vaginas are like acid? Good thing I'm gay


What this thread needs is more Vampires!!!!


Yay someone left the door open for me.

The Exchange

Yeah man, you're lucky. [/bitter]


Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
pres man wrote:

Guy 1: I am thinking of dipping my penis in acid, should I cover it with something first?

Guy 2: Ahhhhh, maybe you shouldn't dip your penis in acid at all.
*next day*
Guy 1: My penis melted off, because I didn't cover it when I dipped it in acid. It is your fault!
Guy 2: Wait, how is it my fau..
Guy 3: You didn't tell him to cover it did you?
Guy 2: What I said was not to dip it ...
Guy 3: I'll take that as a no! See it is your fault.
Guy 2: Now wait a minute, how is it my fault?
Guy 3: You told him last week that he shouldn't cover his penis when he wanted to pee right?
Guy 2: Well, yeah. I mean that would be stu...
Guy 3: So obviously you are saying covering your penis is bad, so what conclusion was he suppose to draw if you don't tell him to cover it before dipping it in acid.
Guy 2: I don't know, maybe not dipping it in at all like I sai...
Guy 3: Exactly, you wanted him to dip it in without protection. It is your fault.
So womens vaginas are like acid? Good thing I'm gay

I have no doubt some probably are. Madonna's maybe. Jolie's probably a good bet to (I mean Billy Bob, really, yuck).


Confuse-Us say, Knowledge without Understanding is like peanut butter without chocolate.

Or, as that hack Albert Einstein said, 'Information is not knowledge'


Random Alias wrote:
Yankee Poodle wrote:
Random Alias wrote:
Aww, who's gonna clean that up?

*roots thru puddle of brahmin barf, gobbling up tasty morsels*

*Heads over to RA and begins licking his face*

PUNT!

YIP!


It is? News to me.


pres man wrote:
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
pres man wrote:

Guy 1: I am thinking of dipping my penis in acid, should I cover it with something first?

Guy 2: Ahhhhh, maybe you shouldn't dip your penis in acid at all.
*next day*
Guy 1: My penis melted off, because I didn't cover it when I dipped it in acid. It is your fault!
Guy 2: Wait, how is it my fau..
Guy 3: You didn't tell him to cover it did you?
Guy 2: What I said was not to dip it ...
Guy 3: I'll take that as a no! See it is your fault.
Guy 2: Now wait a minute, how is it my fault?
Guy 3: You told him last week that he shouldn't cover his penis when he wanted to pee right?
Guy 2: Well, yeah. I mean that would be stu...
Guy 3: So obviously you are saying covering your penis is bad, so what conclusion was he suppose to draw if you don't tell him to cover it before dipping it in acid.
Guy 2: I don't know, maybe not dipping it in at all like I sai...
Guy 3: Exactly, you wanted him to dip it in without protection. It is your fault.
So womens vaginas are like acid? Good thing I'm gay
I have no doubt some probably are. Madonna's maybe. Jolie's probably a good bet to (I mean Billy Bob, really, yuck).

Shakes fist Hey! Those two are on my laminated "break marriage vow list" approved by my wife!!!!


Freehold DM wrote:
pres man wrote:
I have no doubt some probably are. Madonna's maybe. Jolie's probably a good bet to (I mean Billy Bob, really, yuck).
Shakes fist Hey! Those two are on my laminated "break marriage vow list" approved by my wife!!!!

Now you know why.

"Cheat on me, sure let's see how you like it without Mr. Winky!"


Chris Mortika wrote:
Samnell wrote:

Where's that leave honest, decent Catholics who rightly loathe the policy and want it done away with? As you have rightly noted, the grassroots have essentially no power in the Catholic church. Any change would probably require at the very least centuries. We can reasonably foreclose seeing it in our lifetimes. So I think you're stuck. You've got the options of either staying in the church and being an accomplice, if perhaps a rather remote one, to the preventable deaths you deplore, or you have to leave it.

If you hold the church in high esteem, then you can't just say the leaders are a gaggle of old, out of touch fools and better can't be hoped for. That would be pretty contemptuous, and a bit patronizing. Surely one expects better of any organization one wants to be a part of. I know I do, and I'm not even a Catholic. :)

Hey, Samnell. Here's the reply of a devout Catholic: as a matter of faith, I believe that the Catholic Church is fundamentally correct about how the universe works on a supermatural level. A person who believes in Church doctrine but leaves the Church because current Catholics are sinful or disgraceful, is betraying that truth. (In the same way, anyone claiming to stay in the Church, even though he rejects credal dogma, is betraying what he understands to be the truth.)

As a matter of principle, the Pope is not the head of the Church; Christ is. And every Catholic, from His Holiness down to the parish priest, from cardinals down to the children in the pews, is trying to follow Christ's will. We disagree on how to do that, and we are a collection of fools and sinners. But we also have faith that, if we sincerely ask for guidance, the Spirit of God will not allow us to turn completely away from the light.

If we feel the Majestarium is mistaken, the correct response is to pray for them, not to abandon the sacramental Church.

I'm not a Catholic. Doesn't this create a "damned if you do, damned if you doubt" dichotomy(heard that one from a Catholic friend years and years ago)?


Edward Cullen wrote:
Yay someone let the door open for me.

Poser. ;P Ill show you how to treat humans! *starts attacking thread posters*


Edward Cullen wrote:
Yay someone left the door open for me.

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! OMG!!! OMG!!! OMG!!!! IT'S HIM!!!!! *Chases after Edward*

Liberty's Edge

Heh... just realized that Catholicism (and actually most religions) are "Guilty until proven innocent" when it comes down to it...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
Heh... just realized that Catholicism (and actually most religions) are "Guilty until proven innocent" when it comes down to it...

Well, they did come up with the idea of Original Sin, so.....


Edward Cullen wrote:
Yay someone left the door open for me.

Releases Jacob and his werewolf family into the room and closes door

Buh-bye... Edward. Remember your ABC's!!!!

O,o?

laughs maniacally.


Samnell wrote:
stuff

WHile I have disagreed with your tone in other areas, you make some good, and even damning points here. Yeah, the Catholic Church- as an organization- IS NOT a modern democracy. Still, for those who would see change in the organization, this might very well be the silver bullet they have been hoping for. The last time the church attempted to be stalwart in the face of change due to primarily worldly(sexual and political) concerns, the Protestant Reformation happened. I'm thinking the current Pope...or hell, ANY Pope, or anyone in the faith down to the laypeople and common folk want to see something like that happen again, lest history be made for the wrong reasons once more. Sometimes the best thing you can do is simply wait(Sun Tzu said one should always be prepared to wait)- the inexorable progress of time might do more than a thousand angry letters ever could.


Ashe Ravenheart wrote:
Heh... just realized that Catholicism (and actually most religions) are "Guilty until proven innocent" when it comes down to it...

works for Irish too....especially when my mom used it on me.


Wolfthulhu wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Let me rephrase, it is not worth the time it takes to debate this because you have your view and most of the rest of the world has it's own. Learn to pick your fights and drop it so we can all get on with life. I feel, that it seems you are unwilling or perhaps unable to drop a topic.

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981. I don't think the topic of millions of people dying painful and avoidable deaths is a topic that -should- be avoided, do you?

If this were breast cancer would it be something you'd happily sweep under the rug?
Again, abstinence is 100% fool proof vs STDs.

In many countries, women are not given the choice of abstinence. Denying condom education is favor of abstinence is not only unrealistic but inhumane--all simply for the sake of religious dogma.

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