Does anyone know if the spell Threefold Aspect can be used to grant bonus spells per day? I realize since it has a duration of 24hrs, it counts as a temporary bonus, but I can't find it in the RAW where it says only permanent bonuses affect spells per day.
Thanks.
Technically spells per day are based on wisdom score so bonuses to your wisdom score should not be figured in. As some bonuses are "permanent" I imagine some DMs allowing it to work that way, but as the bonus from the spell is actually only when you are in a particular form and you would never be in that form for 24 hours (24-the standard action to change the round following the casting) it wouldn't ever matter.
Does anyone know if the spell Threefold Aspect can be used to grant bonus spells per day? I realize since it has a duration of 24hrs, it counts as a temporary bonus, but I can't find it in the RAW where it says only permanent bonuses affect spells per day.
In my opinion, a temporary bonus would give you extra spell slots, although most temporary bonuses are short enough that you wouldn't keep the extra spell slots for very long.
Does anyone know if the spell Threefold Aspect can be used to grant bonus spells per day? I realize since it has a duration of 24hrs, it counts as a temporary bonus, but I can't find it in the RAW where it says only permanent bonuses affect spells per day.In my opinion, a temporary bonus would give you extra spell slots, although most temporary bonuses are short enough that you wouldn't keep the extra spell slots for very long.
Unless one plans to "chain them along".. casting a second one, say an hour before the previous one ends, thereby extending it.
When factored that way, is it then really a "temporary effect"? Or does it considered a permanent effect, link an enhancing item?
So this raises an interesting point. Is an ability score completely independent from all bonuses applied to it? This means when calculating bonus spells per day, I do not factor in the racial +2 I have to my primary spellcasting stat, or additional bonuses due to level or age? Taken this way, a character could never really exceed the listing for 18 Spellcasting Stat on the chart of bonus spells, as they would never raise it any higher (and only 18 on a really dumped point-buy). I think this makes listings for up to 45 in a spellcasting stat seems odd if so much of the chart is made for NPCs.
Also, this was for a witch, so it would be INT not WIS, but that's irrelevant.
Actually, there's nothing stating in the spell that you can't remain in a given aspect for 24hrs once it's been cast and a standard action is spent. For example, I cast it shortly before bed, and change into a crone (+4 to INT, WIS). When I wake up in the morning, I'm still a crone, and still have the +4 to INT, WIS. Does this bonus get factored in when I have to prepare my bonus spells while communing with my familiar?
Thanks.
Technically a wisdom score is a wisdom score... Take what you want from it. A permanent bonus isn't going away so I see no reason to NOT allow them to modify the spells per day table, but I guess by RAW, no they shouldn't. Far less an interesting point and more playing the way it was intended. You were asking why it would be permanent bonuses instead of just bonuses in general, a temporary bonus to a wisdom score is just that a temporary thing. Permanent bonus, doesn't stop working in an AMF field, it doesn't go away except under very specific circumstances (permanent drain of some sort usually) and so isn't so much a bonus at that point, it is part of the score no?
I never said you couldn't be in the one aspect the entire time... I said that once you cast the spell, you need to switch to that aspect. Once you switch to the aspect you are just short of having that bonus 24 hours. For what it is worth, the only way to make an enhancement bonus permanent seems to be wearing a magic item that grants that bonus as continuous bonus for 24 hours, at which point it becomes "permanent."
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
So even with multiple castings of the spell, you never get a permanent bump to the attribute as it doesn't last for longer than a day. I guess an extended spell of three aspects would, but you would have to be in the form for the entire time as if you switched it the 24 hour timer would reset if or the bonus would go away and you'd lose it.
Well, as I understand it, it differs from being permanent, in that you would not gain skill points from the +4 INT. This was done to prevent switching skills at will for temporary bonuses. However, nothing is explicitly mentioned about bonus spells, thus the question.
And a duration of 24hrs I think is significantly long enough to affect the memorization in this way.
Actually, doing it this way allows you to get free spells which is a big thing, getting the temporary bonus right before memorizing spells then using those bonus spells to buff up/gain something at which point you switch aspects or let the temporary bonus expire leaving you with something for nothing. That is why permanent bonuses are required to gain any thing of value. Bonus spells would definitely fall in that category of "valuable." Else you wouldn't be asking this question now would you?
Regardless it would require longer than 24 hours, which is why the spell wouldn't work that way. It ends at 24 hours so doesn't meet the requirements to be a permanent bonus.
Actually it even says in the quote above "increase the relevant ability score" so apparently permanent bonuses stop being bonuses and start being considered part of the score even if they are denoted otherwise.
I thought you had to have a temporary bonus for at least 24 hours before it became a permanent bonus.
So no, Threefold Aspect would not give you bonus spells (since those only come from permanent bonuses). However, one could argue that if you prepared it multiple times and cast it to extend the duration (not letting the duration lapse) then you could benefit from bonus spells.
So no, Threefold Aspect would not give you bonus spells (since those only come from permanent bonuses).
Cite? That's the topic under discussion.
(Note that the spell Owl's Wisdom has a special clause saying it doesn't give bonus spell slots.)
I thought you had to have a temporary bonus for at least 24 hours before it became a permanent bonus.
So no, Threefold Aspect would not give you bonus spells (since those only come from permanent bonuses). However, one could argue that if you prepared it multiple times and cast it to extend the duration (not letting the duration lapse) then you could benefit from bonus spells.
Each cast is another "instance" and so it would never be longer than 24 hours until it was extended or somehow made to last longer that the 24 hours it normally is. You'd just have overlapping instances of 24 hour spells.
So no, Threefold Aspect would not give you bonus spells (since those only come from permanent bonuses).Cite? That's the topic under discussion.
(Note that the spell Owl's Wisdom has a special clause saying it doesn't give bonus spell slots.)
Are bonuses actually part of an attribute score? I've already pointed out the table says specifically Wisdom score and that the permanent bonuses state that bonuses that last over 24 hours do increase the appropriate score. That is good enough for me, but I'd understand the clicking of the FAQ button to try and get an official answer ;)
Are bonuses actually part of an attribute score?
I believe they are if you've had them more tan 24 hours.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Yeah, I don't think the discussion is really whether Threefold Aspect is Permanent or Temporary, since it needs to be greater than 24 hours to be permanent (although, I would argue that it should say strictly greater than 24 hours in order to be unambiguous). The question here is if it falls under the same category as Fox's Cunning or Owl's Wisdom, which specifically states no bonus spells are gained, as it is a temporary bonus.
How about this, logically:
It is temporary because it isn't permanent.
Because it isn't permanent, it doesn't increase the attribute scores.
And because it doesn't increase the attribute scores the spells per day aren't increased as the table directly references the attribute score.