Ah, optimization. The word alone divides people- many tend to think it creates cookie-cutter, overpowered characters; while other's defend it as only natural- if you're building a character whose competent by description, you want him to be competent by mechanics. Me, I just want my characters to survive and contribute to the parties victories, and I do have a love of tweaking a build to get the exact effect I want. It's a way to enjoy the game while waiting for game day.
So here's an idea I've been working around for a while- an exercise in practical optimization. Now, in my opinion at least, the best way to ensure that you are building a character that isn't a char-op monster/ generic bland guy is to start with the character fully fleshed out fluff wise and build from there- optimizing as well as possible as I can while still using the base character idea.
The second reason for this thread is that there is a character I've been trying to adapt for quite some time- Link, the protagonist of the Legend of Zelda series. The Zelda series has given me loads of inspiration over the years(both in gaming and out), in fact Link to The Past was the first video game I personally owned.
So here's what I want to do- Build link. Sounds easy right? Well, not so much. Here's a list of iconic abilities I consider important to the concept:
1. He's primarily a swordsman, longsword or preferably bastard sword (The Master Sword has a two handed grip, and, at least in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess is quite long). His signature move is a pain though, the spin attack. This is perfectly emulated by whirlwind attack- which unfortunately requires 4 other feats to get.
2. He has a bow, it could be long or short, but it's potent, although it tends to get ditched when the enemies get close. This might need a feat investment to be useful.
3. The boomerang. This is a problem, as this is an exotic weapon, and not a very good one- it has no real advantage over a javelin, which is a simple weapon. This is another feat.
4. The bombs. This isn't a problem, the Fuse Grenade of the adventurer's armory fit's this perfectly. It's a little expensive, but it will work.
5. His skills. Well, at least in the 3d games he jumps around a lot in combat, and sometimes tightrope walks, so that's acrobatics. There is always a stealth minigame anymore, so stealth (how much depends on the player's skill). In ocarina of time and twilight princess he has Ride, and especially in twilight princess he has handle animal. And he certainly has perform, probably wind instruments. He could very well have ranks it climb- though not many, if he doesn't have vines, this is a no-go. He likely has ranks in other skills.
6. His Horse. If Epona isn't an animal companion, what is it?
7. His armor- light, going with twilight princess, it's a chain shirt. Going by the rest, it's just a shirt.
8. His race- he's an elf- sure in game everyone looks like that, so in a Zelda campaign he's be human, but if wanted to play Link in a standard campaign and have him be recognizable, he'd be and elf, or at least a half-elf.
So can you build a character who has these things and is playable? I'm not looking for Pun-pun, I'm looking for a character that can contribute and not feel worthless next to better optimized characters.
So how would you build this? would he be a fighter, bard or ranger? What would his attribute priorities be?
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Sword and Board Ranger (APG)
Magic Items will be:
Sun Blade
Reflecting Light Shield
Mithral Shirt/Chain, perhaps glamered or heading toward clestial armour so that it can be worn under the green tunic.
You might want to add Iron Will to the feat list as he is meant to embody courage.
You can use Cleave and Great Cleave for the spin attack until Whirlwind Attack comes along.
Epona will be his animal companion and is cool enough that I would suggest the Boon Companion feat.
You won't need Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword because he starts of with a longsword (or even short sword) and the Sun Blade requires no feat.
Link doesn't cast spells so you can take the skirmisher archetype, the spell-less ranger option from the APG (or, if you're going 3pp you can use KQ or Super Genius' martial archetypes).
Zelda is not a huge archery damage dealer and does not hail arrows so any archery feats will be about accuracy.
Favoured enemies will probably include animals, orcs, constructs, oozes, undead and whatever the BBEG is.
At level 1 your elf ranger (skirmisher) is going to use a longsword, light shield and leather armour (painted green) until he can get his chain shirt.
First feat will probably be power attack (qualified for cleave, reflects those 'charged' attacks he does).
Skills:
acrobatics
stealth
ride
perform (wind instruments)
swim
climb
Sword and Board Ranger (APG)
Magic Items will be:
Sun Blade
Reflecting Light Shield
Mithral Shirt/Chain, perhaps glamered or heading toward clestial armour so that it can be worn under the green tunic.You might want to add Iron Will to the feat list as he is meant to embody courage.
You can use Cleave and Great Cleave for the spin attack until Whirlwind Attack comes along.
Epona will be his animal companion and is cool enough that I would suggest the Boon Companion feat.
You won't need Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword because he starts of with a longsword (or even short sword) and the Sun Blade requires no feat.
Link doesn't cast spells so you can take one of the spell-less ranger options from the APG (or, if you're going 3pp you can use KQ or Super Genius' martial archetypes).
Zelda is not a huge archery damage dealer and does not hail arrows so any archery feats will be about accuracy.
I really like the sun blade idea- it keeps him from spending a feat and the master sword is a special item.
If I take cleave and great cleave I'm not taking whirlwind attack, that's just too many feats. Whirlwind attack is a more accurate depiction, but greater cleave is so much cheaper.
I don't know if I'd spend a feat on iron will, but I'd definitely take the courageous trait.
The boomerang problem is still unsolved.
Does he have enough feats to get all he needs by 10th level?
Thanks for the help.
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I really like the sun blade idea- it keeps him from spending a feat and the master sword is a special item.
If I take cleave and great cleave I'm not taking whirlwind attack, that's just too many feats. Whirlwind attack is a more accurate depiction, but greater cleave is so much cheaper.
I don't know if I'd spend a feat on iron will, but I'd definitely take the courageous trait.
The boomerang problem is still unsolved.
Does he have enough feats to get all he needs by 10th level?
Thanks for the help.
In terms of equipment I am more concerned about the hook-shot, and don't forget the whip in the latest DS game.
Whip is fine (and you probably won't use it unless you get a chance for a super-high DC acrobatics swing). Hookshot looks like a unique wondrous item to me.
Link will have 5 feats at level 10, plus his sword and board bonuses.
1 Power Attack
3 Cleave
5 Mounted Combat
7 Point Blank Shot
9 Exotic-Weapon Proficiency (boomerang) or Great Cleave
If I was GM I would happily drop boomerang down to a simple weapon, it's a hunters tool and has no mechanical benefit at all. Of course, what you really want is a +1 Returning Boomerang.
If your GM lets you treat boomerang as a martial or simple weapon then you could take Great Cleave.
Alternatively you could own a boomerang and throw it at objects which are far away but not use it as a weapon (saving the feat).
You might even want to take Throw Anything instead although that would reduce the range.
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Looking again at the Ranger Weapon Styles I have a recommendation that seems, at first, counter-intuitive.
Link doesn't do a lot of shield-bashing and with all of the feats you're burning on other stuff I don't think sword-and-board TWF is for you.
So, why not take Two-Handed Weapon Ranger Weapon Style.
You get power attack, cleave and great cleave by level 10 and have some other good options after that. You can still use these with your one-handed sword.
Otherwise you need a long feat chain to use your shield to attack (and Link has no shield spikes).
I really like the sun blade idea- it keeps him from spending a feat and the master sword is a special item.
If I take cleave and great cleave I'm not taking whirlwind attack, that's just too many feats. Whirlwind attack is a more accurate depiction, but greater cleave is so much cheaper.
I don't know if I'd spend a feat on iron will, but I'd definitely take the courageous trait.
The boomerang problem is still unsolved.
Does he have enough feats to get all he needs by 10th level?
Thanks for the help.
In terms of equipment I am more concerned about the hook-shot, and don't forget the whip in the latest DS game.
Whip is fine (and you probably won't use it unless you get a chance for a super-high DC acrobatics swing). Hookshot looks like a unique wondrous item to me.
Link will have 5 feats at level 10, plus his sword and board bonuses.
1 Power Attack
3 Cleave
5 Mounted Combat
7 Point Blank Shot
9 Exotic-Weapon Proficiency (boomerang) or Great CleaveIf I was GM I would happily drop boomerang down to a simple weapon, it's a hunters tool and has no mechanical benefit at all. Of course, what you really want is a +1 Returning Boomerang.
If your GM lets you treat boomerang as a martial or simple weapon then you could take Great Cleave.
Alternatively you could own a boomerang and throw it at objects which are far away but not use it as a weapon (saving the feat).
You might even want to take Throw Anything instead although that would reduce the range.
He could go mounted instead on sword and shield, even the horselord archetype.
As for the hookshot- the Complete Scoundrel has an item called the rod of ropes- it's the hookshot.
I really want to play this character now.
Hmm, I worked a bit on this character and here's what I have for feats:
1 Power Attack
3 Cleave
5 Great Cleave
7 Point Blank Shot
9 ????
not sure on last feat. Precise Shot? Iron Will? Deadly Aim?
With the mounted style my bonus feats would be:
2 Mounted Combat
6 Spirited Charge
10 Mounted Skirmisher
Mounted skirmisher is amazing I must say.
There are several problems though.
Money. You can give a 10th level character three magic weapons, but it hurts- I couldn't afford to give him a +3 sword- I'm thinking master craftsmen (weaponsmith) could help. To be honest though, I am unexperienced at equipping mid-to-high level character.
Any advice is welcome.
If 3.5 materials are allowed, then the almighty ROD OF ROPES the best item ever written ever, can function as a hook shot.
Edit: Doh, beaten to it.
If 3.5 materials are allowed, then the almighty ROD OF ROPES the best item ever written ever, can function as a hook shot.
Edit: Doh, beaten to it.
Rod of ropes is the best item ever. I gave one to my players once, but they never got around to using it. I was crushed.