| Ardenup |
Hi,
I'm rolling up a human arcane bloodline sorcerer and gonna take the extra spells favored class option from APG. Concept is a son of a famous wizard prodigy, who's dad is ashamed his son is a 'slow learner'. Boy wants to show dad he's every bit the wizard he is. DM said he likes the idea and will probably have em spell dual a couple of times as the story develops.
Playing in COTCT AP.
So main priorities are:
1.Filling a god wizards role (thought he'd learn shadow evocation/conjuration and Gtr versions to expand range)
Remember he gets a lot of extra spells known.
2. Being able to down other casters-fast.
Need help with feats and spells.
Feat wise i figured pump illusion spell saves high since he'll likely be mimicking two schools, also party will expect craft weapons/armour and wonderous items.
Spells- need to balance power (my normal spells) and versatility (favored bonus spells)
All PF sources allowed
Cheers
| Fnipernackle |
Versatility in spells. Its the hardest thing to do (especially with a sorcerer) since once u pick your spells that's basically all you get with a few do overs.
When I make sorcerers, I try to balance out what I get. I pick a balance of utility and combat spells (combat being damaging, utility = everything else that's not strait damage, we will use that for simplicities sake in this post.) For combat, I like to take a few touch attack spells that do desent damage, like scorching ray. Then I like to stagger it a bit with combat save spells. Touch attacks are hard to use against rogue type characters, so hit it with a fort save. Fort save is high? Hit it with a will save. Will save high? Hit it with a ref save. That's high too? Cast true strike and/or cast your spell and hope for the best.
That leads me to my next point of balancing the subtype of your combat spells (don't take all fire.) Get a sonic or an acid or a cold spell as well. This can be difficult to find combat spells that you like and fit your play style which brings me to feats.
While I haven't taken a look at all the new feats, I can tell you that Energy Substitution (or whatever its equivilant is, not sure if its in a. Paizo book or not, seen it in some 3PP) is nice so that if u do end up with 3 or 4 fire combat spells, a fire elemental doesn't just rape you.
You won't need Extra Spells Known feat (or whatever its called) since you'll have plenty of spells. I wouldn't go with metamagic either (I don't care for them and the rods are better.) Feats IMO really just depends on your play style. There's my 2cp.
| Sean FitzSimon |
Ooh, I love the idea! Since you're already going with TreantMonk's guide, why not dig through that and see what your strongest options are? You'll have a boatload of spells compared to the standard sorcerer, so feel free to grab a few that are "sometimes" spells.
My basic rule with sorcerers is that if you don't cast it at least once a day you don't need it on your list. With the human bonus it's an increase of almost 50% in spells, which means the rule is a little different: If you don't cast it at least once every other day you don't need it on your list.
Arcane Sorcerers also benefit from playing to a strong single-class offensive school. Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment, and Evocation are all strong choices for a primary offensive school.
For your arcane bond, it's a preference based on how you build your character. Familiars offer a lot of benefits, including the ability to cast touch range spells for you (and better familiars, like the Imp or Mephit). Bonded objects are equally as strong for sorcerers as they are wizards- sure, "spontaneously" casting any spell you know is kinda lame, but it's an extra spell per day of your highest level- pure win. It'll also allow you to craft a staff with spells that aren't on your spell list- you know, just in case.
Hope any of that helps.
w0nkothesane
|
I'm doing something very similar to this in a Kingmaker game, except playing a Gnome Sorcerer with the arcane bloodline. My DM house ruled to let me use the Human FC bonus for extra spells.
One quick question- do you have access to any 3.5 or 3pp books? The Spell Compendium specifically is helping me out a lot, even with having my GM approve spells case-by-case and altering the ones he thinks are too good. There are some powerful illusions there.
My sorcerer casts mostly Illusions but also learns some of the select better combat buffs for the rest of the group, and likewise some choice conjuration spells for battlefield control.
I recommend to pick a school that you intend to cast primarily from (seems to be illusion) and take Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in that school. I strongly recommend Illusion, and spend some time thinking about creative uses for those spells. The sky (and DM restriction) really is the limit here.
Take at least 1 metamagic feat that only adjusts the spell level by 1, to make best use of the Bloodline Arcana and Metamagic Mastery abilities. This choice really depends on your spell selection, because Bouncing Spell, Lingering Spell, and Focused Spell all have powerful effects, but can only be used on certain types of spells.
Lastly, I recommend making maximum use of the one thing you have that no other Sorcerer bloodline gets, a familiar. Take Improved Familiar to get an Imp or Mephit, depending on your preference. Both have a Charisma of 14, can fly, and have hands. Max ranks in Use Magic Device and give it a few wands, preferably for spells that don't allow saving throws and don't depend on caster levels. Grease, Obscuring Mist, Touch of Idiocy (for enemy spellcasters), Enervation...you probably get the idea.
| Dragonsong |
Shoot for Spell Perfection feat from the APG (yes you have to be level 15 to take it) and pick a really really good spell and three fun metas quicken, intensify, heighten, elemental, and reach come to mind most readily
Double the numerical bonuses of feats like spell pen and spell focus and can tweak the spell up to 9th level with one metamagic without raising the cast time or spell level. So I pick feeblemind for example In one round quicken one with double the spell focus: enchant DC, then cast a heightened one +4 to save DC plus double my spell focus enchantments bonus,or feeblemind from 400ft+40 per level(reach meta). Or shoot for ring of wizadry 4 and opt for enerveration as the spell and necro as the focus or even the shad conj/evoc and have double the slots for those options (may be stymied by globe though)
Finding a staff that has the spell you pick for spell perfection is extra good as it says staves can apply all you feats that modify spells and caster level if you prefer.
Of course you will need your other spells for those "non-hammer problem" moments so metamagics that can trigger the arcane bloodline ability to add more versatility is always a good plan
| YawarFiesta |
For feats, Improved Initiative, Improved Familiar(faerie dragon) and spell focus.
Give a focus to conjuration (cover various aspects and saves), battle field control and summoning, don't retrain Summon monster III it adds a lot of spells via Mephits and also don't forget buffing and debuffing.
Shadows spell's are a trap, bassically the only summoning you'll want is the highest and you can already learn it instead of shadow conjuration (you loose access to Suumon Natures Ally, but that doesn't hurt). As for shadow Evocation, the lesser is limited to a subpar blasting, but the greater can be worthwhile.
Humbly,
Yawar
Aazen
|
Taking down other casters? These feats are the bread and butter:
Spell Focus
Greater Spell Focus
Heighten Spell
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penatration
I'd take them in that order. The best part about being a Sorc w/ Arcane is that using the meta feats on the fly can really ruin someones day.
And if you're doing traits; Magical Lineage.
To me beating all other casters is what makes you a god caster. Thats my two zenny.
| Ardenup |
Ok,
Here is a list of what i was thinking (spell compendium is only non PF allowed source)
Please let me know if some don't work. I was thinking Gtr spl focus:illusion+school focus class ability, to use Gtr shadow conj/evocfor a really wide list but may not work?
Spells Bloodline,Feat/New Arcana
0- (12) Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Message, Daze, Ghost Sound, Prestidigiation, Silent Portal, Detect Poison, Acid Splash, Open/Close
1-(7)Identify, Enlarge Person, Feather fall, Nerveskitter, Sleep (swap for Protection against evil), Benign Transposition, Colour Spray (swap for silent image), Mage Armor (swap for Ray of Clumsiness
2-(7)Invisibility, Touch of Idiocy, Detect Thoughts, Mirror Image, Resist Energy, Glitterdust, Phantom Foe, Bulls Strength (swap for scorching ray)
3-(6)Dispel Magic, Blacklight, Fly, Haste, Heroism, Ray of Stupidity, Water Breathing
4-(6+1)Dimension Door, Assay Spell Resistance, Stoneskin, Shadowell (swap for death ward), Mass Resist Energy, Enervation, Scrying, Shadow Conjuration (swap for Attune Form)
5-(6)Overland Flight, Mass Fire Shield, Feeblemind, Teleport, Wall of Stone or thorns, Shadow Evocation (swap for Break Enchantment), lesser Planar Binding (swap for Polymorph)
6-(5+1) True Seeing, Gtr Heroism, Stone Body, Illusory Pit, Fleshiver, Gtr Dispel Magic, Planar Bind (swap for Flesh to Stone)
7-(5) Gtr Teleport, Reverse Gravity, Solipism, Gtr Shadow Conjuration, Project Image, Brilliant Aura
8-(6+1)Power Word Stun, Gtr Shadow Evocation, Gtr Planar Bind, Prismatic Wall, Mind Blank, Wrathful Castigation, Clone, Polymorph Any Object
9-(3)Wish, Maw of Chaos, Time Stop, Energy Drain
Best Spells
Best Uses of Shadow Evocation: Flaming Sphere, Defenestrating Sphere, Dragon Breath, Gtr Floating Disk, Forcewave, Wingbind, Fireshield, Flashburst, Grt Thunderclap, Scintillating Sphere, Fireball, Shatterfloor, Sonourous Hum, Lightning Bolt, Force Ladder, Tiny Hut, Wind wall, Resiliant Sphere
Best Uses of Gtr Shadow Evocation: Ball lightning, Chain Lightning, Ice Claw, Radient Assault, Submerge Ship, Howling Chain, Ray of Light, Delayed Blast Fireball, Forcecage, Grasping Hand, Prismatic Spray, Mage’s Sword, Mass Fire Shield, Firebrand, Prismatic Ray
Best Uses of Shadow Conjuration
Sleetstorm, Stinking Cloud
Best Uses of Gtr Shadow Conjuration
Acid Fog, Wall of Iron, Tunnel Swallow, Black Tentacles, Hidden Lodge, Arc of Lightning, Blast of Flame, Orb spells, Translocation Trick
| Ardenup |
Please keep in mind this list is pre APG (been playing non-Caster for a while) so suggestions from there are appreciated.
Also- not sure if i'm better off just focusing on real effects rather than illusions. Also remember this char wants to impress his archmage dad so versatility/useability out of combat is important
| Father Dale |
For a 'god' sorcerer I'd suggest getting a fair number of metamagic feats.
The beauty of metemagic for a sorcerer is that, if the feats chosen are right, it is essentially like adding additional spells known. For example, the Elemental spell feat essentially adds an additional spell known for every energy spell you have (except if its the energy for which you chose the feat). Heighten, Intensify, Empower, and Maximize can basically add higher level versions of spells you already know. Reach spell can alter many of your spells, making those that would be difficult to deliver much easier (especially some of those nasty nasty touch spells). There are several metamagic feats in the APG that only add one level to the spell; these are great for a sorcerer since you can add them on the fly. (And especially for an Arcane Bloodline sorcerer due to the bloodline bonus.) A careful selection of metamagic feats for a sorcerer can let them greatly expand their versatility in spells.
At higher levels Quicken spell is a must. (In a 'spell duel' situation, quicken spell + readied action to counterspell can let you shut down an opponent while still getting off attacks.)
The right metamagic feats will depend on your base spell selection.
The other suggestions are good too. Spell Penetration is always useful. Improved Initiative of course. Not too big a fan of toughness for acranists...10 extra hitpoints at level 10 isn't that big of a defense. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense, if you catch my meaning. Depending on how focused you are within a particular school, Spell Focus may or may not be a great deal. As a primary caster, you're save DCs should be good to go. Of course, against tougher opponents they will be more likely to save. But thats why you want some debuff spells too (such as Enervation). The +1 from Spell Focus for a limited feat isn't usually worth it unless you have quite a few spells that will benefit. Although as an Arcane Bloodline sorcerer you can take it with bonus feats, so that makes it a little easier.
One suggestion if focusing on dealing with other casters. Take Analyze Dweomer. This gives an extremely potent tactical advantage in being able to know precisely what magical defenses the opponent has up (as well as what magical items he possesses). The last thing you want to do is drop a Save or Die spell with a high Fort save on someone with Spell Turning. Nearly as bad is wasting turns trying to blast someone when they have resistances up to your attacks. Knowledge is power, as any God Wizard knows, and Analyze Dweomer is the key to knowing all about your enemy casters.
The shadow spells are great for versatility, but I wouldn't make them your bread and butter. Against potent NPCs they will have little effect no matter what you do (two saves means that at least one if not both will be good saves). They are best used against the minions and mooks of the world.
Oh I see that you have access to the Spell Compendium. That opens up a possibility of being a decent dispeller/counterspeller. There is a spell there called Duelward (5th lvl) which lets you counterspell as an immediate action. Which means if you can get this spell up, you can shut down an enemy caster for one round and still get your turn. And in a battle between arcane combatants that is usually enough to win. I had great success with this spell in 3.5.
Indomitability can be a great way to survive at higher levels.
Final Rebuke is devestating, since the target is stunned for a round even on a failed save. They should rename this spell "Fighter Eraser."
I am a big fan of Nights Caress, especially if it can be empowered. I had a necromancer in 3.5 who cast this a lot. Nobody survived on a failed save. The con damage (which is empowered as well) is severe. This would be fantastic with Reach spell and a rod of empower.
Good versatility spells for a sorcerer: Telekinesis, Polymorph (and greater versions, especially Polymorph any Object), Greater Dispell (and at 9th lvl Reaving Dispell + Duelward for loads of fun!), the Image spells, Wall of Stone (because its shapeable)
| avatar-84 |
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This is a spell list using the sorcerer arcane bloodline, and the APG favourite class option for humans (without APG spells), and with one more 9 level spell known by feat. In my opinion a sorc with this list could be capable to be complete in every situation,like a wizard but non linked to standard slots.
1° level identify enlarge person protection for evil grease charme magic armor silent image feather fall
2° level invisibility web glitter dust mirror image scorcing ray hideous laughter resist energy gust of wind
3° level dispel magic slow haste tiny hut fireball stinking cloud wind wall
4° level dimensional door confusion scrying black tentacles invis. Greater enervation resilient sphere dimensional anchor
5° level overland flight feeblemind wall of force telekinesis trasmute rock to mud summon monster 5 seeming
6° level true seeing dispell magic greater disintegration chain lightning contingency programmed image anti magic field
7° level teleportation greater arcane sight greater spell turning mage's magnificent . summon monster 7 reverse gravity project image
8° level power word stun moment of prescience maze mind blank horrid wilting polimorph any object prying eyes greater
9° level wish mage's disjunction summon monster 9 time stop prismatic sphere
| Ardenup |
good call about the feats- i was gonna take heighten, quicken and bouncing. Didn't consider the energy swapping feat as i'f intended to shadow version the energy spell i wanted.
I know the too saves those spells allow weaken them, but i'f hoped that +4 to the dc (school focus, Gtr spl fcs) plus +1 for a meta feat would make the dc high enough.
Good call on analise deowmer, I'll take it. Maybe improved counterspell would be goof for me...
| CASEY BENNETT |
The best way to wreck opposing spellcasters is either to Feeblemind them, which is great if you go with an Enchantment focus, or to hold an action to blast them with a high damage, usually single-target, spell if they begin to cast.
Or, just go before them and kill/disable them on your first action.
To that, i mostly suggest making sure you pick up Quicken Spell when you can use it, so you can cast something and still hold to disrupt the enemy caster.