So I'm looking over the Celestial Chainmail, and am trying to figure out the cost. The +3 is 9000gp, the flight once per day would be 5400gp, the armor itself is 300 gp, which totals 14,700gp, which leaves 7700 gp.
My first question is, is the overall price lowered because the creator "must be good"
My second question is, can the enhancements listed under Celestial Armor's base statistics (+6 to max dex, -15 spell failure, -3 armor check penalty) be applied to other Armor's (like platemail)
The +6 to Max Dex, -3 to ACP, and 15% spell failure reduction is very simmilar to the +2 max dex, -3 ACP and 10% spell failure reduction from Mithral, which would cost 4K on medium armor. It seems to me that they doubled Mithral to 8K, so if you were going to make Celestial Full Plate, I would say double the heavy armor cost to 18K.
Celestial plate armor costs 28,650 gp according to Skeletons of Scarwall. That's using 3.5 prices for full plate and mithral, though.
There was a thread a few weeks back that James Jacobs weighed in on (if I remember correctly) in which he said the "Celestial" in celestial chainmail is about 13,000 in cost, that could be applied to any other armor type. After posting this I will try to find that thread and link or quote it.
James Jacobs wrote: Full plate, like all of the standard forms of armor listed on table 6–6, is not automatically masterwork. Simply being "individually fitted by a master armorsmith" does not make armor masterwork at all. If you want masterwork full plate, you have to spend the extra 150 gp. (Of course, since full plate already costs 1,500 gp, another 150 gp is a relatively meaningless additional expense.)
Full plate made out of dragon hide is automatically masterwork, because dragonhide is more awesome than regular steel.
Celestial armor is not mithral—it's actually made of silver or gold (as mentioned in its description), and thus doesn't gain any of the standard modifiers for being mithral at all. It's its own thing. Its lower arcane spell failure and higher max Dex bonus are a result of its magical qualities, not what it's made out of. In addition, this magic allows folks to wear it as if it were light armor—the mithral versions don't do this because mithral isn't fundamentally magical like the enhancements on celestial armor.
Mithral full plate of speed is more expensive because haste is a VERY powerful effect. Anything that adds an additional attack is going to be guaranteed expensive, regardless of its other effects.
James Jacobs wrote: In any event, celestial armor isn't an armor quality. It's a unique kind of armor, and thus has a unique pricing. It does weird stuff; it's really light, it's made of gold, it's REALLY nice looking, it lets you fly, and so on. Its pricing is a result of ALL of these elements, and that's pretty much that.
Elven chainmail and the mithral shirt are nothing more than armor made of mithral. They're listed as examples of types of armor made of mithral... we could have also listed mithral breastplates or mithral scale mail or mithral half-plate, but we didn't.
In the end, the prices are fine the way they are. At least as far as I'm concerned. If they're weird to you, by all means change them for your game.
Frankly, the over-examination of tiny fiddly rules bits in an attempt to "solve" the equation of how things are priced is more or less destined to cause only greater confusion. Magic item pricing is equal parts math and art, since the game itself wasn't designed from the ground up by mathematicians.
James Jacobs wrote: magnuskn wrote:
Thread ressurection. And +1 to the poster above me. If "Celestial" is some type of enhancement that could theoretically be put onto other armours, as James seems to say above, what should be its pricing. A +X on the enhancement scale or a fixed price?
Without the cost of the +3 chainmail element of celestial armor, we get a price of about 13,000 gp. The simplest solution is to just say that its effects cost about 13,000 gp and be done with it... but of course, its effects are more powerful when put on heavier armor, so you'd probably want to adjust the cost significantly if, say, this ability were to go onto a suit of full plate.
All of which is why we DIDN'T present these abilities as a generic armor quality, but only as a specific type of magic armor. It's just simpler and easier.
DSRMT wrote:
My second question is, can the enhancements listed under Celestial Armor's base statistics (+6 to max dex, -15 spell failure, -3 armor check penalty) be applied to other Armor's (like platemail)
Not really. Whatever your DM will allow, of course.
But in any event I wouldn't have it be a linear addition to max DEX, ASF, & ACP but rather relative to the heavy armor that you want to put on it. Likewise it would need to be much more pricy than mithril full plate lest not to make it useless.
-James
james maissen wrote: DSRMT wrote:
My second question is, can the enhancements listed under Celestial Armor's base statistics (+6 to max dex, -15 spell failure, -3 armor check penalty) be applied to other Armor's (like platemail)
Not really. Whatever your DM will allow, of course.
But in any event I wouldn't have it be a linear addition to max DEX, ASF, & ACP but rather relative to the heavy armor that you want to put on it. Likewise it would need to be much more pricy than mithril full plate lest not to make it useless.
-James +1
Magic item prices come from comparing to existing items, Celestial is similar to mithral and thus mithral is the best reference.
A custom light Celestial armor should be cheaper, while a custom heavy Celestial armor should be more expensive.
You are prolly safe using the same price for any other customized Celestial medium armor (i.e. Breastplate) even if it makes a slighty better armor.
Celestial armors are often demanded by characters with High Dex, I do hope Paizo adds examples of light and medium Celestial armors to any one future Accesory, with balanced prices of course.
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