Need advice on making a Dragon Disciple


Advice

Scarab Sages

So I'm making a new character for a pathfinderized Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, my Dwarf Monk having had his head bitten off in the last session.(Took 90+damage over about a turn)

The character needs to be level 7 appropiate wealth by level and has the following array to start with before race and level bonus'.:
18,16,14,12,10,8

I'm thinking of making a Dragon Disciple. Want it more focused on combat rather than spell-casting.

Figure Human Sorceror1/Fighter4/Dragon Disciple2
Figure 18St, 14Dex, 10Con, 12Int, 8Wis, 16Cha
+2 to Cha as human bonus.
With Str belt, Cha headband, Lev4 bonus to dex and DD St bonus that puts me at :
22St, 15Dex, 10Con, 12Int, 8Wis, 20Cha
at Level 7
Rest of my money spent on +1 Mithral Full Plate and an Amulet of Mighty Fists(Bane(Undead))

For feats I'm thinking:
1st
Starter: Arcane Strike
Human Bonus: Power Attack

2nd
Fighter: Weapon Focus(Claw)

3rd
Level: Still Spell
Fighter: Cleave

5th
Level: Great Cleave
Fighter: Weapon Specialization (Claw)

7th
Level: Weapon Focus(Bite)
Bloodline bonus: Improved Initiative

At Level 7 I would have Claw/Claw/Bite power attacking at +11/+11/+11 and doing 1d4+12/1d4+12/1d6+15

I forget, can you use a swift action and full attack? If so then its
+12/+12/+12 and 1d4+13/1d4+13/1d6+16

What do you think? Suggestions are welcome.

Sovereign Court

You might want to look at going with another class other then fighter and picking up some more bang for your charisma buck. Not sure how good you are at playing the good guy but Sorcerer 1/Paladin 4/Dragon Diciple is an even more amazing build in Pathfinder then it was in 3rd edition. Plus it rolls nicely into eldritch knight if your thinking that far ahead.

It's also help you out as you appear to be tanking your wisdom pretty hard. Maybe some more balanced stats would help too, and using a real weapon as opposed to claws and bites.

Could go for a bastard sword, so you've got something decent for one or two-handed fighting with the exotic weapon proficiency. Probably could stand to save some coin and get a mithril breastplate too and spread out the extra money to cover some shortfalls. Buy some wands (good value with 2 spell lists), make sure your spell list has a few no semantic component spells in it (true strike is fun). Arcane Strike you could probably skip and just have a magic weapon. Probably nab the trait that gives you +2 caster levels for sorcerer so long as your sorc caster level isn't higher then your total hit dice. Bless weapon is a good spell to have on hand too, so go bonus paladin spell slot.

You can use a swift action in the same turn you use a full attack, yes.


If you're not planning on casting a lot of spells with DCs, why do you need so much Charisma? I think you have too much Charisma and not enough Constitution.

Also note that Arcane Strike doesn't give you an attack bonus, only a damage bonus.

I would probably prefer Bard 4/Fighter 1 as an entrance to Dragon Disciple, but it's a matter of personal taste. Note that the Arcane Duelist bard variant from the APG gives you Arcane Strike as a bonus feat. You'd lose Weapon Specialization, but you'd gain Inspire Courage, so it might be a wash (depending on whether you have a bard in your party already).

--

EDIT: Oh right...you need the extra Charisma because your claw/claw/bite is measured in rounds/day. Ugh. Maybe Bard 3/Ranger 2 (where the ranger uses the natural weapon fighting style from the APG) would be better. Then you can claw all day, at least. And if you play an orc, you could even take the bite attack option from the APG, too.

As a bard, you could get rid of the feats Weapon Specialization, Still Spell (wear a mithral breastplate +2 instead of mithral plate +1 and you should be fine) and Great Cleave (I just don't like that feat).

Don't forget a magical silver weapon as back-up!

Scarab Sages

Thankyou for the suggestions.

For switching out fighter for paladin it would help my saves alot though it would cost me 3 feats. Well if I drop arcane strike and great cleave and move things around then I get:

1st
Starter: Power Attack
Human Bonus: Cleave

3rd
Level: Still Spell

5th
Level: Weapon Focus (Claw)

7th
Level: Weapon Focus(Bite)
Bloodline bonus: Improved Initiative

The party could use more sources of incombat healing though.

We have a paladin who has shown for I think 2 sessions of 4 so far(Probably dropping or rerolling) and a 3/3 cleric/wizard with 150+ scrolls of CLW in his haversack. Rest of the party (not all show every time) Dwarf Two-hand fighter 7, Elf Ranger 6, Halfling Druid 6, and sometimes an human alchemist 6. We had a rogue 6 but a save-or-die spell took him out. The Paladin NPC died to it as well and the Wiz/Cleric was almost killed(DM missed him by 2HD)

I did want to play up the whole turning dragon thing so I was trying to stay away from regular weapons.
Would be funny though with smite attacking evil undead doing:
+18/+18/+18
1d4+2d6+22/1d4+2d6+22/3d6+25

anymore thoughts welcome. Will look at switching the fullplate to something less expensive.

Silver Crusade

How are you learning Weapon Focus (claw) when you don't have claws at 5th level?


M P 433 wrote:
How are you learning Weapon Focus (claw) when you don't have claws at 5th level?

A Draconic sorcerer gets the ability to grow claws at level 1.


Isn't there a feat in the apg to give you extra uses of your first level blood line ability? If there isnt you should probably talk to your dm about creating one. I have played the claw focused Dragon Disciple and it can work really well, but you have to be able to use your claw/claw/bite on most of your attacks.

You may also want to consider the rending claws feat from the APG where you get an extra 1d6 damage if you hit with both claw attacks.

Silver Crusade

aha

Shadow Lodge

Kolokotroni wrote:

Isn't there a feat in the apg to give you extra uses of your first level blood line ability? If there isnt you should probably talk to your dm about creating one. I have played the claw focused Dragon Disciple and it can work really well, but you have to be able to use your claw/claw/bite on most of your attacks.

You may also want to consider the rending claws feat from the APG where you get an extra 1d6 damage if you hit with both claw attacks.

Then there is Eldritch Claws, which let's your natural weapons count as magic and silver for the puprposes of overcoming DR.


I have one of these right now, so..I am going to mention my experience, and then offer up my suggestions :)

Your claws/bite powers are great flavor, but ultimately, not going to be contributing much...if at all. Sure, they are three attacks at your base attack bonus, but the damage they do is subpar. They also ONLY last 3 rounds + your charisma modifier. So 8 rounds.... that really isn't a lot of round per day. If you go to a dungeon, that won't last you. (But what a way to intimidate all the other gladiators in the arena...good times) The damage they do is also broken apart :( so 1d6 physical that can get eaten away by DR (and surprisingly does alot, unless you use your smite :( ) and 1d6 energy, which will always get snaggled by the corresponding resist...since most of them come in sets of 5 (Fire Resist 5 turns your fist into a neat special effect). What I am saying with all of this is...if you are breaking out the claws/bite attacks...then your weapon is broken and you are out of spells and have no where to run. Don't rely on them.

Amulet of Mighty Fists works on unarmed attacks....you are armed with claws and a bite :( Sorry, charlie [I thought the same thing]. Once again bringing us back to, claws/bite = neat, but you still want a weapon.

The good news....you have paladin levels. Oh yes....All hail the power of the Pally...everyone's favorite Pal! Paladin shores up ALL of your defensive weaknesses....all of them...seriously..heal as a swift?? thank you. That is a move, heal and spell all in one round. Oh hey, lookie here, you also are immune to fear, get all martial weapons, get heavy armor, get Charisma bonus to saves..I am groovin on this class. And that is really the main point. Paladin is awesome, so lets make it more awesome, by adding in some arcana!

You say that you want a martial dragon disciple. That means you concentrate more on war, than on casting. You need a good BAB, or BAB replacement so that you can keep on keepin' on:

Sorcerer 2/Paladin 4/Dragon Disciple 8: the first combo: Casts great!. Levels 14; BAB 11; Caster Level: arcane 8, divine 1

Sorcerer 2 / Paladin 7 / Dragon Disciple 4: the second combo: more smiting!. Levels 13; BAB 11; Caster Level: arcane 5, divine 4

So, do you want to cast great? or have more smiting?

If you only take 4 levels of DD, you only have to make up for 2 BAB loss (one from sorcerer, one from DD), these are made up in the form of strength enhancements from DD, the perk is, this enhancement, unlike a normal BAB also adds to damage...which is just gravy. As soon as you take that 5th level of DD, you start to go from a melee oriented character to a caster.

To snag that lovely 9th level increase to Natural Armor...pick up a Robe of Arcane Heritage and wear it over your mithral celestial armor (the breastplate has a ASF 0%) Most other mithral celestial armor you can negate with the Arcane Armor Training.

Your feats: Weapon Focus is not worth the +1 to BAB, not really for any weapon. Weapon Spec is ok, but not worth the investment when your strength is around 30, which is easy to get as a DD. Great Cleave is hard to set up properly on a regular basis. And the right type of armor negates your need for Still Spell :)

Hopefully I have freed up a few feats for ya :)

Paladin Dragon Disciple is SO fun to play. Mine is related to a Silver Dragon. You have a ton of options, so you never really get into a "I do this every round" routine.

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